Building the top notch SQ system

[fly_marlin]

[quote name='tommymilan311']Yeah, @NoLoud4U gave me some good links and what looks to be good reads. Just the longer I'm on here, the more stupid I feel when it comes to this. So over the next few weeks I'll read through these a few times to get a better grasp of things. Maybe I won't sound so ignorant. I bet I'll go back and laugh at myself for how stupid I once was. But, ya gotta start somewhere right?

Thanks all for the help, and not making this a hostile environment for newbies like me. I've already learned a great deal here.[/QUOTE]

We aim carefully, you won't get caught in the crossfire.

 

[LosIsATool 5,000+ posts]

Here's a link to some reference tracks. Streaming them is not the best way to listen but it gives you a basic idea.

Records to test HiFi with

 

[LosIsATool 5,000+ posts]

[quote name='tommymilan311']Yeah, @NoLoud4U gave me some good links and what looks to be good reads. Just the longer I'm on here, the more stupid I feel when it comes to this. So over the next few weeks I'll read through these a few times to get a better grasp of things. Maybe I won't sound so ignorant. I bet I'll go back and laugh at myself for how stupid I once was. But, ya gotta start somewhere right?

Thanks all for the help, and not making this a hostile environment for newbies like me. I've already learned a great deal here.[/QUOTE]

Also keep in mind if you go down this road into the Hifi realm your music taste might change. It's no longer about how loud the bass is. It's about how well it's recorded and the effects they put into it. Instead of demoing bass music you demo Pink Floyd, a lot of the 70-90s rock has very good recordings, and country/soft rock.
If you normally stream music you will start spending $70 a week on CDs.
I do find Aftermath recordings to be pretty good for rap. That's about it though. Eminem, Yelawolf

 

[The_Quiet_One 10+ year member]

SQ setups are time consuming and can be more expensive depending on which side of the "amplifiers sound the same argument you fall on." It's cheaper and easier on the soul if you fall on the side that most decent quality amps sound the same side. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif or you're deaf because your obviously missing each amp's sound signature.

Actually I would daresay most people who come on the forums looking for "SQ advice" should more accurately say they don't want their system to sound like absolute crap 9 times out of 10. If you really are an aspiring SQ enthusiast prepare to shed some tears and some money to do it right. How deep does the rabbit hole go?

 

[fly_marlin]

SQ setups are time consuming and can be more expensive depending on which side of the "amplifiers sound the same argument you fall on." It's cheaper and easier on the soul if you fall on the side that most decent quality amps sound the same side. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif or you're deaf because your obviously missing each amp's sound signature.
Actually I would daresay most people who come on the forums looking for "SQ advice" should more accurately say they don't want their system to sound like absolute crap 9 times out of 10. If you really are an aspiring SQ enthusiast prepare to shed some tears and some money to do it right. How deep does the rabbit hole go?

Agreed. I think that when a lot of people say "SQ," they actually mean "I don't want it too loud because I'm not upgrading my electrical." lol

 

[LosIsATool 5,000+ posts]

There is a general confusion of the term sound quality.

 

[ladysmanfelpz 10+ year member]

80% equipment. Is that why you have great stuff but can't get a sound stage? Or is it because you have a PS8 and no idea how to use it?
Yes I flamed you. It was long overdue.

Lol that was awesome. Glad to see you responded back tho too Marlin. I'm sorry but I have to take the side of NoLoud. I didn't like your advice on my build marlin, granted I think you system would sound sweet. Both of yours. I just read your build too NoLoud. Get more pics up!!! Did you ever figure out that MS-8?

Marlin and I drive the same car, 07 accord coupe, and I asked advice on SQ build and he steered me in the direction of line drivers and making it loud. I'm talking SQ here! I know you need power to get the SQ, but i'm still in the learning stages as I think we all are. No flaming from me, we are all in this together and SQ is subjective. Marlin's build is sick, noloud's is dope, and KHA's is killer. I'm going a mini KHA build. Had a subaru with a good rear stage, but this build going subless (which I don't think marlin really understood) and trying to make a killer front stage. Have my front doors sealed up currently and get great response. All stock with only iSimple unit, so no eq or crossovers yet. Gonna pick up the MS-8 and do a full deadening, yes floor too, and bring as much as I can out of a stock system, stock speakers. I really want to see how much a processor can do limited by the components, so yes I side more with Marlin's statement of 80% install and 20% components. Sounds sick parked, road noise decreases SQ substantially as I can't override it with volume. I do plan on upgrading the tweeters tho to a silk dome in stock locations to keep completely factory look, remove the stock tweeters with crappy crossovers, and get nice smooth highs on a low powered set up. Should sound good.

I think this is the direction us SQ oriented guys need to go cuz as Trumpet said we will not be upgrading HU in the future. Newer cars are gonna be fully integratable and have more power to push more crappy sounding bass that is actually midbass. Us guys that know how to work with stock systems, through deadening and factory integration will have a leg up on everybody.

And OP yes you have a lot to learn. People have PhD's in this stuff. I say screw putting it off 6 years, pick up $1000 worth of equipment, whatever that may be and get tuning. SQ is no longer clarity. From what these guys have mentioned its soundstage to give you the presence of being at a concert and lost in the music where you cannot pick up your speakers at all. If you wait 6 years you will be way behind. A deck with EQ and a good sub set up will show you what we mean, especially a well powered one set at under 80 hz positioned correctly. You won't be able to localize it. And sound deadening is very difficult especially to reduce that pesky road noise. That will require around $1000 in materials alone as well as 40+ hours of your time.

 

[ladysmanfelpz 10+ year member]

And yes I'm not upgrading my electrical //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/suave.gif.858fc102f7646e678ee8af7e1fbc41d1.gif

 

[LosIsATool 5,000+ posts]

Lol that was awesome. Glad to see you responded back tho too Marlin. I'm sorry but I have to take the side of NoLoud. I didn't like your advice on my build marlin, granted I think you system would sound sweet. Both of yours. I just read your build too NoLoud. Get more pics up!!! Did you ever figure out that MS-8?
Marlin and I drive the same car, 07 accord coupe, and I asked advice on SQ build and he steered me in the direction of line drivers and making it loud. I'm talking SQ here! I know you need power to get the SQ, but i'm still in the learning stages as I think we all are. No flaming from me, we are all in this together and SQ is subjective. Marlin's build is sick, noloud's is dope, and KHA's is killer. I'm going a mini KHA build. Had a subaru with a good rear stage, but this build going subless (which I don't think marlin really understood) and trying to make a killer front stage. Have my front doors sealed up currently and get great response. All stock with only iSimple unit, so no eq or crossovers yet. Gonna pick up the MS-8 and do a full deadening, yes floor too, and bring as much as I can out of a stock system, stock speakers. I really want to see how much a processor can do limited by the components, so yes I side more with Marlin's statement of 80% install and 20% components. Sounds sick parked, road noise decreases SQ substantially as I can't override it with volume. I do plan on upgrading the tweeters tho to a silk dome in stock locations to keep completely factory look, remove the stock tweeters with crappy crossovers, and get nice smooth highs on a low powered set up. Should sound good.

I think this is the direction us SQ oriented guys need to go cuz as Trumpet said we will not be upgrading HU in the future. Newer cars are gonna be fully integratable and have more power to push more crappy sounding bass that is actually midbass. Us guys that know how to work with stock systems, through deadening and factory integration will have a leg up on everybody.

And OP yes you have a lot to learn. People have PhD's in this stuff. I say screw putting it off 6 years, pick up $1000 worth of equipment, whatever that may be and get tuning. SQ is no longer clarity. From what these guys have mentioned its soundstage to give you the presence of being at a concert and lost in the music where you cannot pick up your speakers at all. If you wait 6 years you will be way behind. A deck with EQ and a good sub set up will show you what we mean, especially a well powered one set at under 80 hz positioned correctly. You won't be able to localize it. And sound deadening is very difficult especially to reduce that pesky road noise. That will require around $1000 in materials alone as well as 40+ hours of your time.

Thanks. I got it right. Most of it was my own error by not understanding what it was trying to do. I still don't know why it boosted 400hz so much. Nobody knows even Andy. But I used the EQ to get it right. I have to pull some stuff apart this weekend and add some spray foam this weekend. That's about all there is left to document. It's pretty straight forward.

 

[fly_marlin]

Lol that was awesome. Glad to see you responded back tho too Marlin. I'm sorry but I have to take the side of NoLoud. I didn't like your advice on my build marlin, granted I think you system would sound sweet. Both of yours. I just read your build too NoLoud. Get more pics up!!! Did you ever figure out that MS-8?
Marlin and I drive the same car, 07 accord coupe, and I asked advice on SQ build and he steered me in the direction of line drivers and making it loud. I'm talking SQ here! I know you need power to get the SQ, but i'm still in the learning stages as I think we all are. No flaming from me, we are all in this together and SQ is subjective. Marlin's build is sick, noloud's is dope, and KHA's is killer. I'm going a mini KHA build. Had a subaru with a good rear stage, but this build going subless (which I don't think marlin really understood) and trying to make a killer front stage. Have my front doors sealed up currently and get great response. All stock with only iSimple unit, so no eq or crossovers yet. Gonna pick up the MS-8 and do a full deadening, yes floor too, and bring as much as I can out of a stock system, stock speakers. I really want to see how much a processor can do limited by the components, so yes I side more with Marlin's statement of 80% install and 20% components. Sounds sick parked, road noise decreases SQ substantially as I can't override it with volume. I do plan on upgrading the tweeters tho to a silk dome in stock locations to keep completely factory look, remove the stock tweeters with crappy crossovers, and get nice smooth highs on a low powered set up. Should sound good.

I think this is the direction us SQ oriented guys need to go cuz as Trumpet said we will not be upgrading HU in the future. Newer cars are gonna be fully integratable and have more power to push more crappy sounding bass that is actually midbass. Us guys that know how to work with stock systems, through deadening and factory integration will have a leg up on everybody.

And OP yes you have a lot to learn. People have PhD's in this stuff. I say screw putting it off 6 years, pick up $1000 worth of equipment, whatever that may be and get tuning. SQ is no longer clarity. From what these guys have mentioned its soundstage to give you the presence of being at a concert and lost in the music where you cannot pick up your speakers at all. If you wait 6 years you will be way behind. A deck with EQ and a good sub set up will show you what we mean, especially a well powered one set at under 80 hz positioned correctly. You won't be able to localize it. And sound deadening is very difficult especially to reduce that pesky road noise. That will require around $1000 in materials alone as well as 40+ hours of your time.

Not all advice is for everyone, so I don't expect everyone to follow what everyone else says. I'm not flaming you, but I think you're simply reading black on white incorrectly.

First, if you read carefully, I said 80% components and 20% install.

Please refer back to your original post soliciting help:

"Hey guys. Got an 07 accord coupe. If you are familiar with the car you know its a PITA to change the HU so opting to keep it looking stock. Gonna go the sleeper style with plenty of sound deadening and opting to go with a JBL MS-8 for timing, EQ, and a slight boost in power. Need some suggestions on a component set that is gonna give me good clarity with good mid bass from my doors and tweets. Not looking to spend a ton of money, just something with better material cone to increase the sound as best I can on a meager 18 watts. Also would like the tweeter to sound smooth so thinking a silk tweeter if jbl ms-8 power is sufficient to drive it."

I don't care if people don't like my advice as I also don't like some advice I receive - it's meant to give you more options, not force you to follow them. Some you pursue, some you don't, but bro...where in there are you asking for an SQ setup? Also, point me where 18 meager watts in a car and SQ intersect. That way next time someone gives us a $300 budget, we can "advise" them correctly. When you say "not looking to spend a ton of money," expect people to keep that in mind when they recommend you stuff.

This isn't a flame war, but please read carefully before quoting me or calling me out.

 

[ladysmanfelpz 10+ year member]

i know marlin and I am saying I am siding on noloud's opinion of 80% install and 20% components for MY install. Which was what he said on page 2. But guess what like you pointed out, I'm going low budget and low power. I'm going for as much SQ I can get for the power and by that I am looking at waaaaay more sound deadening than I have ever done before. And the MS-8 is a good intermediate step as it provides active cross, eq and time alignment through logic 7. Who's advice do you think I would take? My build is way different than yours for my budget and time. I'm not ragging your build or advice. You know your s***.

And since I'm saying MS-8 is good intermediate step, I may add more later. This is what I can do for now, but may find it way lacking in SQ. Still will sound way better than stock and probably better than my old subaru. I can add amps and components later easily with the MS-8 already integrated.

 

[LosIsATool 5,000+ posts]

i know marlin and I am saying I am siding on noloud's opinion of 80% install and 20% components for MY install. Which was what he said on page 2. But guess what like you pointed out, I'm going low budget and low power. I'm going for as much SQ I can get for the power and by that I am looking at waaaaay more sound deadening than I have ever done before. And the MS-8 is a good intermediate step as it provides active cross, eq and time alignment through logic 7. Who's advice do you think I would take? My build is way different than yours for my budget and time. I'm not ragging your build or advice. You know your s***.
And since I'm saying MS-8 is good intermediate step, I may add more later. This is what I can do for now, but may find it way lacking in SQ. Still will sound way better than stock and probably better than my old subaru. I can add amps and components later easily with the MS-8 already integrated.

You would be surprised what the MS8 can do that other much higher end processors can't. I'll dig it up later.

 

[LosIsATool 5,000+ posts]

1. Removes factory delay--no other processor does this and it's a big miss.

2. Includes a upmixer that's tuned specifically for cars.

3. Includes an autotune EQ that can create filters of nearly any shape.

4. Includes a 31-band EQ that adjust all adjacent bands to ensure that the curve you draw is precisely the curve that's implemented. No other car audio 31-band EQ does that.

5. Includes an all pass filter necessary to remix center steered bass into the rest of the system below the center channel high pass filter.

6. Corrects polarity on all the input channels automatically without ambiguity.

7. Uses a spatial average of 6 measurements in determining the frequency response of the system prior to EQ.

8. Uses all automotive grade parts

9. Includes a subwoofer level control designed to maintain the illusion of up-front bass.

10. Will support 48 different speaker system configurations.

11. Includes completely isolated differential inputs for noise rejection (preamp and speaker level)

12. It corrects for sampling errors in CD playback.

 

[Jeffdachef 5,000+ posts]

You would be surprised what the MS8 can do that other much higher end processors can't. I'll dig it up later.

well the MS 8 would be considered in the good equipment % of the argument, its not cheap either. Lets take a 99 dollar head unit and some cheap speakers and an amp+ door treatments with the total of less than 500 dollars. I doubt, you'll find anything satisfactory soundwise for that budget. I highly doubt you can polish that anymore than what its limits are.

Without proper gear, you cant even do a proper install/tune. Its 50/50, cant have one without the other

 

[LosIsATool 5,000+ posts]

well the MS 8 would be considered in the good equipment % of the argument, its not cheap either. Lets take a 99 dollar head unit and some cheap speakers and an amp+ door treatments with the total of less than 500 dollars. I doubt, you'll find anything satisfactory soundwise for that budget. I highly doubt you can polish that anymore than what its limits are.
Without proper gear, you cant even do a proper install/tune. Its 50/50, cant have one without the other

It is what it is. The end user decides I guess.

How does that saying go?

Cheap

Loud/SQ

Reliable

Pick 2 because all 3 isn't happening.