10's or 8's...worried about low end.

[ultimate157 5,000+ posts]

How do 3 twelves sound? I know a guy in town that has 3 12's & is in mid 30's..I know another guy who has 3 12's & does mid 50's..

Reword?

I used 3 12's simply as an example to show that you can make 2 8's sound a hell of a lot louder than anyone would ever expect. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif

 

[Immacomputer 10+ year member]

actually i did miss your post...
but i don't see why it matters...

i don't know exactly why...

i can guess....

its the frequency at which the sub reaches the best compromise between moving the cone mass quickly and mostly...

so like at 20 hz the motor moves the cone mass easily but has to reach a larger Xmax to produce output, but at 200 hz it's harder to move the cone mass but it doesn't have to have as large of an Xman to produce the same output level...

so Fs would be the peak between the graph of these 2 lines...

so when 2 different size subs have the same motor (RE's) the only difference is a little added cone mass so the Fs doesn't go up as much

but in lines of subs where bigger size = stronger motor, the added cone mass is over-compensated for with a larger motor making the Fs much lower because it is less difficult to reach a higher Xmax with a stronger motor

thats just a guess...

Completely off and more of your bullshit. You need to understand what resonance is before you try to explain the free air resonance is of a driver. You don't know speaker design, you don't understand the physics behind it (Fs is actually elementary Physics and I believe it is taught in like high school Physics II), and you still haven't grasped the concept that even speakers of the same series are NOT comparable drivers.

Do you want to hear something crazy and do you want to know why Fs is pointless to look at alone? Fs is the FREE AIR RESONANCE and when the driver is put into an enclosure (I don't give a god **** what type of enclosure) it's point of resonance changes. That means that Fs is NO LONGER A SPEC OF THE DRIVER ONCE IT IS MOUNTED.

Get the **** off of the short bus and get a ****ing idea of what you're talking about before just coming here and spouting shit out. You blatantly have not even taken a basic Physics course and yet you try to act like you know what's going on. Get the **** out.

 

[J31Rob 5,000+ posts]

I used 3 12's simply as an example to show that you can make 2 8's sound a hell of a lot louder than anyone would ever expect. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif

I was jay kay anyway.. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/crap.gif.7f4dd41e3e9b23fbd170a1ee6f65cecc.gif

 

[sqhertz 5,000+ posts]

Completely off and more of your bullshit. You need to understand what resonance is before you try to explain the free air resonance is of a driver. You don't know speaker design, you don't understand the physics behind it (Fs is actually elementary Physics and I believe it is taught in like high school Physics II), and you still haven't grasped the concept that even speakers of the same series are NOT comparable drivers.
Do you want to hear something crazy and do you want to know why Fs is pointless to look at alone? Fs is the FREE AIR RESONANCE and when the driver is put into an enclosure (I don't give a god **** what type of enclosure) it's point of resonance changes. That means that Fs is NO LONGER A SPEC OF THE DRIVER ONCE IT IS MOUNTED.

Get the **** off of the short bus and get a ****ing idea of what you're talking about before just coming here and spouting shit out. You blatantly have not even taken a basic Physics course and yet you try to act like you know what's going on. Get the **** out.

boo-yah.

 

[cotjones 10+ year member]

i like when he said 2 8's ported would be inexpencive , hard to build and not the best possible performance. how would it NOT be the best possible performance if its in a ported enclosure. port = about as efficient as they get.

and a shockwave is NOT an earthquake //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/laugh.gif.48439b2acf2cfca21620f01e7f77d1e4.gif !

it might be the best possible performance for 8's but it's not likely the best possible performance he can get.. (some of these (AWSOME) ported boxes and transmission lines these people are reffering to would take up all his room with one sub...

 

[cotjones 10+ year member]

Completely off and more of your bullshit. You need to understand what resonance is before you try to explain the free air resonance is of a driver. You don't know speaker design, you don't understand the physics behind it (Fs is actually elementary Physics and I believe it is taught in like high school Physics II), and you still haven't grasped the concept that even speakers of the same series are NOT comparable drivers.
Do you want to hear something crazy and do you want to know why Fs is pointless to look at alone? Fs is the FREE AIR RESONANCE and when the driver is put into an enclosure (I don't give a god **** what type of enclosure) it's point of resonance changes. That means that Fs is NO LONGER A SPEC OF THE DRIVER ONCE IT IS MOUNTED.

Get the **** off of the short bus and get a ****ing idea of what you're talking about before just coming here and spouting shit out. You blatantly have not even taken a basic Physics course and yet you try to act like you know what's going on. Get the **** out.

hey dipshit, i said it was a guess...

and i know what resonance is, it is the frequency at which an object naturally vibrates...

i thought we was asking what causes the resonant frequency... that i don't exactly know

it doesn't matter what matters is that if a sub has a lower Fs then it plays louder lower in free air...

and when comparing 2 subs in common sealed enclosures, you can infer that because a sub plays lower in free air it will also play lower in a sealed enclosure, you cannot infer this about ported enclosures because of the vast tuning possibilities...

between different sizes of the same series you can't as easily infer this because you could also change the size of the sealed box which would affect resonance...

i'm assuming that in the same series, the manufacterer's will change the recomended sealed enclosure with sub size (which most do)

so you can infer that when determining the difference between an 8 an a 15 in sealed enclosures the difference between the output at 20 hz will be greater than the difference at 150hz

 

[Hintzyboy 5,000+ posts]

boo-yah.

John Madden? I didn't know you were into car audio

 

[UndercoverPunk 5,000+ posts]

JFC......

JFC. Unsubscribed.

 

[Hintzyboy 5,000+ posts]

it might be the best possible performance for 8's but it's not likely the best possible performance he can get.. (some of these (AWSOME) ported boxes and transmission lines these people are reffering to would take up all his room with one sub...

//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/fyi.gif.9f1f679348da7204ce960cfc74bca8e0.gif I have a single cab s10 and I can fit ~2 cubes ported plus an amp rack on top of the enclosure without losing legroom. There is a lot more space in trucks than you seem to think, especially if you're not like 6 feet tall. And the recommended ported volume for most 8s isn't very large (.5 cubes a piece for an ED 9kv.2 for example). So, the OP should easily be able to fit 3 or 4 decent 8"s ported, which should easily outperform most setups with 2 sealed tens that are in a fairly small box.

And since you like comparing subs of the same model, let's have an example.

4 ED 9kv.2s = $220 plus shipping (with forum discount)

Sd: 924 sq cm total

xmax:14.1 mm

2 ED 11kv.2s = $180 plus shipping

Sd: 700 sq sm total

xmax: 15.1 mm

Not that these specs REALLY tell us anything, but it does show that the 8"s have roughly 32% more surface area than the tens, while only losing 1 mm of xmax. The 8s also have a 1.8 Hz lower Fs. So all your favorite specs come back and bite you in the *** here. But you can't really pick a sub based on that stuff. I pretty much did that for fun, to show you that your own flawed arguments don't even agree with you.

The point is that there are a large variety of 8" woofers out there that are easier to get good performance out of than comprable 10" woofers, especially in a volume empaired environment like a truck

 

[audioholic 5,000+ posts]

is that what i stated? is it really? i mean really? use your brain on this one
guess wat? thats not my point dumbass... and i made that clear

and where was i wrong?

ZOMG you are being a ****ing idiot!!!

op askes which he should get....

i say "10's aren't allways better but they would probly be better for you"...

you say, "hey 10's aren't allways better!!!!"

i say, "i didn't say they were always better, i said they were better for him"...

you say, "but thats not what you ment you ment that 8's can't give bass"

i say, "no i ment he's not gunna get as much bass from 8's as he will 10's from the options he gave"

you say "see you think 8's are intrisicly inferior to 10's"

it's like argueing with a broken record of a retard screaming his guts out

ZOMG too bad that's not what you originally said! //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/rolleyes.gif.c1fef805e9d1464d377451cd5bc18bfb.gif Idiot, like I haven't already quoted your comments enough. And pointed out their flaws. Its really sad you have such a hard time admitting when you are in over your head. And no amount of ZOMG's will change that.

 

[ultimate157 5,000+ posts]

i thought we was asking what causes the resonant frequency... that i don't exactly know

The weight of the cone, the strength of the motor, and the stiffness of the suspension determine the Fs of a sub.

 

[Immacomputer 10+ year member]

and i know what resonance is, it is the frequency at which an object naturally vibrates...

Wrong.

i thought we was asking what causes the resonant frequency... that i don't exactly know

And you don't even know what that is.

it doesn't matter what matters is that if a sub has a lower Fs then it plays louder lower in free air...

and when comparing 2 subs in common sealed enclosures, you can infer that because a sub plays lower in free air it will also play lower in a sealed enclosure, you cannot infer this about ported enclosures because of the vast tuning possibilities...

Wrong.

Depending on other factors, it is possible for the sub with the higher Fs to have a LOWER Fc (point of resonance in the enclosure) when in the sealed enclosure. That's why you need more than just Fs to try to say which will play lower in a sealed enclosure.

i'm assuming that in the same series, the manufacterer's will change the recomended sealed enclosure with sub size (which most do)

Again, you don't understand speaker design so you should just stop assuming everything. That is why you get bashed here all the time. The type of enclosure will change based on the design, not the cone area alone.

so you can infer that when determining the difference between an 8 an a 15 in sealed enclosures the difference between the output at 20 hz will be greater than the difference at 150hz

Again, you're assuming stuff you know nothing about.

Ok, my play time with cot is over. Don't bother replying as it won't take you anywhere with me (even though I know you will because you think that people will read it and think you're correct. It's too bad that's all an illusion in your head and they all laugh at you in reality.

 

[ultimate157 5,000+ posts]

I was jay kay anyway.. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/crap.gif.7f4dd41e3e9b23fbd170a1ee6f65cecc.gif

Must've missed the eSarcasm //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

 

[hoss 5,000+ posts]

man this thread used to be a fun one... and cotjones, you really are a moron.

this thread got un-fun with your stupidity //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/frown.gif.a3531fa0534503350665a1e957861287.gif . you should try learning sometime instead of showing off your lack of information.

 

[cotjones 10+ year member]

The weight of the cone, the strength of the motor, and the stiffness of the suspension determine the Fs of a sub.

then i was partially correct i said the cone mass and motor strength