Wolfram w-4500.1 Pre-order $600

[KilluminatiDre 10+ year member]

I miss the old days

Me too. Time to make car audio great again lmao

 

[wew lad 5,000+ posts]

The price of an amplifier or loudspeaker is pretty well fixed at the cost of materials. Again, who is making money rebadging a Korean 4K amp and selling it for 600$? The "company" who slaps their brand name on it might see 50$ profit per amp after all is said and done, the buildhouse probably makes less still; everything from the aluminum heatsink to electronics components (transistors, resistors, caps, transformers) is pretty much a commodity so likely whoever is making all that is operating on very slim margins. The only really evolving technology is the class D chips and op amps which by and large aren't game changing and I suspect you're getting in newer amps.
Loudspeakers the same. The cost of steel, magnets, paper, rubber, and copper/aluminum hasn't changed at all. The only savings we saw there was to cut out the first world manufacturing (labor and overhead) cost to be replaced by shipping costs which all throughout the industry probably add up to a significant portion of the price tag on anything.

This isn't cell phones or a laptop where you get dramatic gains in speed or space every year. In fact the closest thing to that is head units which by and large are incredibly cheap today for what they do and every year bare bones models do more and more.

So tell us, who is being "greedy" here and making all this money off of this stuff? What great technology is being held back from us due to greedy corporations?

As far as why Brazil, why not? They're third world so labor is cheap and they have a fair bit of local demand. They're not making a full bridge amp any cheaper than China or Korea could. Call up an engineer and get them to design a full bridge amp for you and shop out the design to a Chinese buildhouse and I bet you can sell them cheaper than Brazil can at the same quality. Those amps are cheap because they use a small heatsink and few components not because whoever owns those companies is benevolent and giving away amps.

So what is it that you feel you're being cheated out of or paying for and not getting? Particularly after you admitted that you aren't actually willing to pay for first world engineering or manufacture. I'm very confident that there's engineers who can do a whole lot if you had the money but your being willing to pay gutter prices for what they create today 5 years from now when China steals their designs doesn't give them a lot of incentive to develop and prototype things today.

You make fair points, as did I.

I do stand by not paying for R&D if the company won't do it, and if china is going to steal the design anyways. So why not just mass produce in China with emphasis on good design and quality control?

The designs we have for amplifiers are old, even full bridge is relatively old. I believe there's a breakthrough in innovation that needs to become reality in this realm, that's my point

Why have multiple manufacturers put their name on the same product making the same minimal profit? Is it necessary? It is competition? No. It's not. I want capitalism to encourage innovation.

The only thing I can really say is revolutionary right now is the fact that amps are miniaturized. I'd consider it R&D if manufacturers would work hard to build a regulated amplifier with certain characteristics at a better price than the competition. We aren't seeing that

 

[LosIsATool 5,000+ posts]

You make fair points, as did I.
I do stand by not paying for R&D if the company won't do it, and if china is going to steal the design anyways. So why not just mass produce in China with emphasis on good design and quality control?

The designs we have for amplifiers are old, even full bridge is relatively old. I believe there's a breakthrough in innovation that needs to become reality in this realm, that's my point

Why have multiple manufacturers put their name on the same product making the same minimal profit? Is it necessary? It is competition? No. It's not. I want capitalism to encourage innovation.

The only thing I can really say is revolutionary right now is the fact that amps are miniaturized. I'd consider it R&D if manufacturers would work hard to build a regulated amplifier with certain characteristics at a better price than the competition. We aren't seeing that

Either way it’s a win for us. Dollar per watt aspect.

 

[hispls 5,000+ posts]

Only comment from me on this is a 600$ amp that is "moving" in terms of selling, you are looking at more then 50$ an amp profit.
Theres a difference of a order of say 20 compared to an order of 100+...

Tooling and material cost get discounted a bit for large quantities due to the build house building more within a hour.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

Nobody is selling a lot of 4K amps and I'm guessing that cost delivered from Korean is 500$ a pop. Add in shipping and whatever returns/warranties/other loss you have to eat and you're lucky to turn a profit whatsoever. Like I keep saying, all you people who claim these "brands" are rolling in the dough doing this are free to call up Korea and have a go at it yourselves.

I do stand by not paying for R&D if the company won't do it

Obviously, if you're not even willing to pay Korea prices for reliable amps you definitely won't pay what actual innovation is worth. The issue is nobody else is willing to pay either.

So why not just mass produce in China with emphasis on good design and quality control?

Which is pretty much what everybody is doing now, though most are cutting corners wherever possible because consumers just want the biggest "power" number printed on the heatsink for the lowest price. Something Brazil is doing very well at the moment. You're free to contact any Chinese factory you like and order up some amps and suggest revisions as you see fit. Then see if the marketplace feels whatever you are doing is worth the extra cost.

The designs we have for amplifiers are old, even full bridge is relatively old. I believe there's a breakthrough in innovation that needs to become reality in this realm, that's my point

What do you really expect?

If you want innovation, call up Stephen Mantz and have him design an amplifier for you. He has been selling some of his most recent innovations to Focal and Mosconi (do you buy their amps to support that R&D?), but he also has things he has designed that nobody is willing to pay for yet. I'm sure there's a few other guys who could dream you up some real innovation too but it won't come cheap and what an engineer dreams up as a great product often isn't cost effective to market, particularly when most consumers think that buying a 4K amp from Korea for 600$ is too expensive.

Why have multiple manufacturers put their name on the same product making the same minimal profit?

Because most of them are like every clown who chimes in on this forum thinking re-selling Korean/Chinese mid-fi is like owning a printing press. Most of them come from money and will blow a half a million of mom and dad's money before either raising the prices and becoming profitable (Skar) or going under (we could name dozens). In their defense, most of these folks really are enthusiasts and want to try to make money doing something they enjoy.

Is it necessary? It is competition?

It is actually virtually pure competition. The barrier of entry is relatively low cost and absolutely anybody can do it. The only thing better for the consumer would be if Korea marketed direct to the public here and cut out the middle man, though as I said, most of these mopes who try this "business" lose their shirts so I think many of you people would complain over factory direct prices were they to charge enough to actually turn a profit.

I want capitalism to encourage innovation.

And yet you won't invest in R&D to design an amp and get it to market or even pay Korea prices yourself. What really are describing is socialism where someone else pays and you get something for nothing.

if manufacturers would work hard to build a regulated amplifier with certain characteristics at a b/etter price than the competition. We aren't seeing that

Regulated power supply is expensive in parts to implement and they are not small. That technology is not new. Again, feel free to call China/Korea/Brazil and get something produced.

 

[los33]

Nobody is selling a lot of 4K amps and I'm guessing that cost delivered from Korean is 500$ a pop. Add in shipping and whatever returns/warranties/other loss you have to eat and you're lucky to turn a profit whatsoever. Like I keep saying, all you people who claim these "brands" are rolling in the dough doing this are free to call up Korea and have a go at it yourselves.

I wouldnt say rolling in dough or else they would be hosting all sorts of things to market there brands, but a good chunk of change to earn 60k+ a year as a owner i dont see why not.

Being that most companies have more then one sku they order units by the bulk.

Also standard crate shipping for a 500 pound crate cost 5k-10k by air to ground depending on the carrier, but drop shipping is the ideal shipping method for these companies so shipping cost are cut by half even from korea.

I hate to say it, but you are very intelligent towards audio.. Business wise you would fail miserably until you research.

I do shipments by the ton every other week, and i spend less then what you guestimated on shipment cost.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

 

[Boomin_tahoe 5,000+ posts]

Nothing. They just have a limited line up.

Compared to whom/what?

 

[Boomin_tahoe 5,000+ posts]

Im just happy to get good power these days for reasonable prices unlike 10+ years ago where mono amps were outragous .

Ain't that the truth. Amps have become cheaper over the course of the years. I remember back in the early 90's bought an o/s Hifonics Odin amp....200 bucks for a 240 watt amp lol....granite I was younger and not much $$ but scraped every dollar I had to get it, was gonna power my 15 with it. Years later, people are putting 200 watts+ to their front stage. budget amps can be had for around 200-250 now....and a hell of a lot more power too.

 

[KilluminatiDre 10+ year member]

Ain't that the truth. Amps have become cheaper over the course of the years. I remember back in the early 90's bought an o/s Hifonics Odin amp....200 bucks for a 240 watt amp lol....granite I was younger and not much $$ but scraped every dollar I had to get it, was gonna power my 15 with it. Years later, people are putting 200 watts+ to their front stage. budget amps can be had for around 200-250 now....and a hell of a lot more power too.

Yep. I remember scraping up money for a used viper 1200.1 and then blowing it and now you can easily get a belva or hifonics that puts out 2k rms in the $200 range. I remember kicker kx2500s were going for 600+, now we have the opportunity to get 4500 rms for 600. I personally feel technology has advanced in the sense that its easy and cheaper to get big power these days. Back then i wouldnt have dreamed of 4k for 600.

Btw how are those x's between 40-50 hz?

 

[LosIsATool 5,000+ posts]

Compared to whom/what?

Just what they make. DD has a much larger line up. Hell DD has more then most mainstreams now

 

[TheFiverMan 10+ year member]

Just what they make. DD has a much larger line up. Hell DD has more then most mainstreams now

Yes DD has gone all out over the years and seem to have their hands into everything now which i think other companies should follow along.

In the past 5 years Ive seen more companies come and go then ever before.

 

[hispls 5,000+ posts]

I wouldnt say rolling in dough or else they would be hosting all sorts of things to market there brands, but a good chunk of change to earn 60k+ a year as a owner i dont see why not.
Being that most companies have more then one sku they order units by the bulk.

Also standard crate shipping for a 500 pound crate cost 5k-10k by air to ground depending on the carrier, but drop shipping is the ideal shipping method for these companies so shipping cost are cut by half even from korea.

I hate to say it, but you are very intelligent towards audio.. Business wise you would fail miserably until you research.

I do shipments by the ton every other week, and i spend less then what you guestimated on shipment cost.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

Four out of five of these "brands" doesn't last two years. Look at the price point of American Bass, Sundown, DC, Incriminator, etc. That's a realistic price point to actually be a profitable business. How much money do you figure you'd need tied up in inventory to clear 60 a year re-selling Chinese/Korean audio.

I'm not sure how many small businesses you've run but whatever business you're in you'll be paying out a lot more than the cost of goods sold. Go ahead though, line up a container of Korean amps and show us all how to make a tidy profit selling them to the bottom feeders that are the car audio consumers.

 

[Hertz Mafia]

I think wolfram name is Lame. Also all those medal elements as their slogan for each subwoofer. The AU subwoofer is rare like gold, that’s why it’s chosen by top competitors..... ummmmm that Shlt gayyyy, the subwoofer is in someone’s back yard in a flower bed next to a swimming pool for its stock photo... What in the fvck

https://www.wolframaudio.com/collections/gold-2-500-rms/products/au-15

 

[bigblank69 10+ year member]

How about we sum up this thread this way, and if need be make a new thread discussing the state of the Car Audio business.

If you want a solid Korean made and proven board at a discounted rate... Buy the Wolfram!

If you want new tech, or a micro amp, or a DSP etc... buy something else.

The End... //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

 

[kr15 5,000+ posts]

Those AU subs are going to be good. The weakness will likely be the coil, as it will almost certainly be Chinese at that price.

Someone I respect and knows more than any of us about subs told me if those TS specs check out (they sometimes do not), that is likely the best 299$ sub on the market. He does worry about the coil tho.

For what its worth, he owns a sub company, and he said he'd lose money at 299$ making a comparable sub

 

[Lbetts818]

I’d love to smell this flower in their pic. I personally know Colin and is a coool dude. I’m seriously considering 6 of the ag 12s ion their new 4.5k. That’s why I’m selling my minty ia 20.1 no one wants for 475$ shipped //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif