why that was nice

[JayRich 10+ year member]

Wow, yeah, I see your point. It's so hard to believe all those U.S. citizens crossing the border into Canada so they can get the health care in Canada that they can't get here. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/crazy.gif.c13912c32de98515d3142759a824dae7.gif

The only thing is I believe you have to have either employment or a certifcate indicating your eligible to work there to be covered in their health care system. My cousins have told me that they are now getting a high about of people migrating from the west indies and mexico just for the health care

 

[Flipx99 5,000+ posts]

As P.J. O'Rourke so aptly put it many moons ago, "If you think health care is expensive now, just wait until it is free."

Nothing is "free" coming from the government...WE pay for it in taxes. Period.

I was quoting you from the quote regarding see how expensive it gets when health care is free. Thats when i said I take it you've never been to canada.

See above...that wasn't me. I think that quote is silly.

Wonderful, However, I still do not believe or see any reason why the data you gave shows a positive correlation between bankruptcies and medical expensive relevant to determining the cause of the bankruptcies.

I didn't say there was no positive correlation. I said no positive correlation relevant to the discussion. Read the post.
It's easy to show a positive correlation between fat people and cheeseburgers but that correlation doesn't mean if you eat cheeseburgers you will be fat. It has fallacy stamped all over it, just like the op study and its implications.

You said correlation, but you meant causation. Causation can be proven with good data and a strong economic/mathematical background. The easiest mechansim is what's known as Granger Causality. You cannot have causation without correlation.

Just imagaine you never pay that much for health care, you think your supporting everyone else who is freeloading the system. Then GOD forbid you or a family member gets sick real sick, and that insurance company you've been paying your premiums to for years tells you, well its a pre existing condition so you are not covered for this, so now that $300k bill is your responsibility and you have to take a lien out on your home just to cover it. Not everyone who is suffering in this system are freeloaders. There are people out there with families where the sole provider gets sick, so not only do you lose your income to pay your bills, now you have medical bills on top of that. What's the solution???
it seems irrelevant until it happens to you or one of your loved ones

This is why, as I stressed before, it is of utmost importance to fully understand your insurance plan. If you can't (I can't), you need to have someone who does help you.

In a nutshell canada is doing worlds better than us on the issue of health care, b/c they dont have people losing their homes due to liens for medical bills or have to sell their homes just to pay for the bills. Im sure there system has flaws as nothing is perfect but its way better than what we have here

You are not looking at the system as a whole. The wait to see specialists is many times longer and a couple of our candaian posters can't vouch for this. If you die waiting in line (not to say they don't here, but the wait is less), it would be worth it to be bankrupt.

 

[Flipx99 5,000+ posts]

//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/iagree.gif.15d6c075ee8d3913ba26866d06993068.gif

I think you are having trouble using the quote button.

 

[JayRich 10+ year member]

//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/iagree.gif.15d6c075ee8d3913ba26866d06993068.gif

I guess you havent been to canada either?

 

[Flipx99 5,000+ posts]

I think there needs to be a lesson on how to use the quote feature.This is the second time it appears I have said something that I did not.

 

[cotjones 10+ year member]

I think there needs to be a lesson on how to use the quote feature.This is the second time it appears I have said something that I did not.

There is a reason i said it the way i did and did not use the term causation.

It is clear that there is correlation between the 2 factors. However as I said, that correlation is IRRELEVANT to proving the CAUSE of the data's results.

Seriously? You are arguing with me because I called an embryonic chicken an egg?

 

[jnralp00 10+ year member]

Of course we need reform.
We don't need the government to insure everyone, though.

X2... I totally agree we need some kind of reform, but I do not want the gov. Making the decisions on the healthcare services me or my family recieves.

 

[JayRich 10+ year member]

See above...that wasn't me. I think that quote is silly.

My mistake

This is why, as I stressed before, it is of utmost importance to fully understand your insurance plan. If you can't (I can't), you need to have someone who does help you.

//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/iagree.gif.15d6c075ee8d3913ba26866d06993068.gif

You are not looking at the system as a whole. The wait to see specialists is many times longer and a couple of our candaian posters can't vouch for this. If you die waiting in line (not to say they don't here, but the wait is less), it would be worth it to be bankrupt.

There is no wait to be seen at their hospitals, now there may be a wait for a specialist but the same can be said here. My mom was in accident and had to wait 3 1/2 weeks to see the specialist. I took a Workers compensation claim were the employee had to wait 3 months to see a specialist just to confirm that he needed a hernia surgery

 

[JayRich 10+ year member]

plus in canada you can see any doctor or any specialist you choose, so if one has a short wait then you can go there

 

[mokedaddy 5,000+ posts]

Canadian healthcare will not work in the U.S. so the point is moot.

 

[Flipx99 5,000+ posts]

There is no wait to be seen at their hospitals, now there may be a wait for a specialist but the same can be said here. My mom was in accident and had to wait 3 1/2 weeks to see the specialist. I took a Workers compensation claim were the employee had to wait 3 months to see a specialist just to confirm that he needed a hernia surgery

There is some wait...I don't believe there is "no wait" ever..

plus in canada you can see any doctor or any specialist you choose, so if one has a short wait then you can go there

I am basing this off threads from Candaidans that have commented on waiting of upwards of 7 months to see a specialist about some kind of gastrointestial disorder. Is this anecdotal, maybe. I am certain the wait depends on the number of doctors available in your area.

--------

Here's an example of a health choice I am making. I recently started training rather strenously because I wanted to run a 5k. In the process, I have developed some sort of injury to my knee which causes pain when I run. My PCP referred me to a specialist (who I will see in 7 total days from my visit with my PCP) who I *think* will reccomend me getting a MRI. I think all I need is a brace. The MRI will cause me to have some money out of pocket, whereas a consultation where I may just need a brace is essentially covered. In a system where medical care was free, I'd just get the MRI, but because I have to pay for it, I am making choices that lower the cost for everyone. I am sure the results of the MRI will say I need a brace. So, why not fit for the brace now, and if that proves to be ineffective, go for the MRI later.

 

[JayRich 10+ year member]

Canadian healthcare will not work in the U.S. so the point is moot.

Curious as to why?

 

[mokedaddy 5,000+ posts]

Curious as to why?

Do some research. I can guarantee you will find many reasons.

 

[roarzorz 10+ year member]

Back when I had medical insurance it cost me $200 a week for my family. Luckily my wife got a decent job at a hospital and was able to get insurance for her & our kids silly cheap. For myself it still cost me $50 a week at my job with rates going up every year. Two years ago I said enough. I'm not paying $2600 a year in case something happens. If I ever need health care I'd rather make $50 a month payments to the hospital on that bill rather than $200 a month to a company that does nothing.

Since that time I've been to to hospital once for an eye injury. That bill was $1000 and is easily paid off. I also had to see a specialist which I thought would be outrageous. They were cool and when they found out I didn't have insurance knocked my total down to $30. That's not a typo. The eye specialist only charged me $30 because I didn't have insurance.

With a flat bill you have the chance to make payments and actually get it paid off. With insurance you never stop making payments. Screw the insurance companies.

 

[cotjones 10+ year member]

Curious as to why?

//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/fyi.gif.9f1f679348da7204ce960cfc74bca8e0.gif Because the US is not Canada //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/fyi.gif.9f1f679348da7204ce960cfc74bca8e0.gif