why that was nice

[wu36ca 10+ year member]

This has to be one of the stupidest comments I've ever seen in defense of American cars. Of course a trophy wife in the suburbs isn't going to get on the garage floor to drain the oil. I really hope that you aren't arguing that those who buy American cars (which I happen to like many of) are only those who truly care about what they drive...

Wow, I think you totally missed the point of what I was talking about.

I drive a new Civic Si //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/confused.gif.e820e0216602db4765798ac39d28caa9.gif I was actually talking about how I hear a main defense of American cars is that they are great if you know how to work on your own car. I am not trying to bash any car, but my point being that American cars are reliable if you have to do a lot of work to them. I am not saying only American car owners care about their cars, what I meant was that other than regular maintenance and maybe a few minor incidentals, any vehicle should not see a mechanic very often. Main point being, the argument I was speaking of says that American cars are great if you are willing to take up the extra maintenance. I think its a stupid argument.

And one vehicle is hardly indicative of the population, but to throw my hat into the repair ring, at 70k on a 2004 Silverado the problems included burning oil, leaky exhaust, problems with the rear differential. This car was not used as a work vehicle at all, it was a daily driver.

In the 90's or so the gap was much wider in terms of quality of cars. Honda and Toyota dominated. In recent years the gap has been closing. GM vehicles are starting to step up in the reliability area to the point where it is becoming neck and neck. Now if they could only make a car for less than 25K that is actually nice.

 

[Flipx99 5,000+ posts]

Wow, I think you totally missed the point of what I was talking about.
I drive a new Civic Si //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/confused.gif.e820e0216602db4765798ac39d28caa9.gif I was actually talking about how I hear a main defense of American cars is that they are great if you know how to work on your own car. I am not trying to bash any car, but my point being that American cars are reliable if you have to do a lot of work to them. I am not saying only American car owners care about their cars, what I meant was that other than regular maintenance and maybe a few minor incidentals, any vehicle should not see a mechanic very often. Main point being, the argument I was speaking of says that American cars are great if you are willing to take up the extra maintenance. I think its a stupid argument.

And one vehicle is hardly indicative of the population, but to throw my hat into the repair ring, at 70k on a 2004 Silverado the problems included burning oil, leaky exhaust, problems with the rear differential. This car was not used as a work vehicle at all, it was a daily driver.

That's how I saw your argument. I am sorry that you feel it is stupid, but working on my car is something I actually enjoy (as long as the weather is nice //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif). The work I put in to my car, I get out from my car for the most part. Also, you you consider major repairs (the ones you listed) I consider no big deal.

 

[wu36ca 10+ year member]

That's how I saw your argument. I am sorry that you feel it is stupid, but working on my car is something I actually enjoy (as long as the weather is nice //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif). The work I put in to my car, I get out from my car for the most part. Also, you you consider major repairs (the ones you listed) I consider no big deal.

I think working on cars is great too, but only to improve, not maintain. And if you don't know how to do it it really sucks. I will give you credit on the G-body statement. They may make you look like a drug dealer, but those cars are badass.

 

[azimuth 5,000+ posts]

cheap partsgreat knowledge

swapping parts

//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/fyi.gif.9f1f679348da7204ce960cfc74bca8e0.gif I am not hit, cool, neat, etc. I am the essence of practical. If you build the same car for 10 years and you buy 2 or 3 of them, then you know where the problem areas are. As for those spending $5k-6 in repair dollars, who knows. Before I bought my truck, I didn't spend $5k on a car. Why would I? When I buy GM, I know what is going to break down when. I know how to listen to the motor to know when the EGR is about to go out. How many of you actually sit and listen to your motor idle so you know when something is wrong ??? I don't need a light, guage, etc to tell me my engine is running hot, I know. I can tell how the sound the valves open and close the engine temp.

out of curiosity. i drive an s-10. i drove a gmc sonoma and an isuzu pickup prior. basically the same trucks. is it possible for you to explain the sound of the egr going out? my truck runs fine, but it just sounds different. hard to explain. sounds ok at idle, but it has an ever so faint grinding kind of sound on acceleration. seems i'm the only one that can hear it though. the mechanic at work says i'm fvckin' crazy.

 

[phantom240 5,000+ posts]

Funny how only mods get away with running their mouth. Generally most computers that get dust in them, run hot. Mine does, because its not expensive plus my hosue is dusty. And yes most Jap cars have crappy quality, that includes cheap plastic, door skins, and steel. Why do you think they cost less than American? Its not because of less marketing. But see you don't have any sort of conclusion on why Jap cars are better. Your insults are almost as bad as your knowledge on what a good car his. So take your kindle words to another thread where your expertise knowledge of car audio belongs because you obviously have no idea of build quality and performance of any U.S. car. You can use facts and figures all day long but in the end, you don't know what your talking about.

You must be the most outwardly stupid person on this forum. First off, if japanese cars are so "Cheap" and "Crappy" then why is TOYOTA almost at the point of selling more units in north america than GM, Ford, and Chrysler put together? Why is it that 80's era toyota and nissan trucks, in half decent shape, are STILL selling for $3-4k? Have you ever worked on a japanese car? Ever worked on a domestic, namely a GM? Ever try to install a stereo in a GM? A modern one? Its quite possibly the worst experience known to man. GM is they only company I know of that is stupid enough to put a computer module that has engine diagnostics, chime function, and other vital computer functions in the radio system! Mechanically most domestics are pretty simple... but ever work on a 90's GM sedan with a v6 in it? Not fun. Ever work on a nissan or honda 4 banger? Simplest motors in the universe.

Not that I'm 100% import, but up until recent years, the domestic market has been consistently second rate compared to the japanese automakers.

 

[Flipx99 5,000+ posts]

out of curiosity. i drive an s-10. i drove a gmc sonoma and an isuzu pickup prior. basically the same trucks. is it possible for you to explain the sound of the egr going out? my truck runs fine, but it just sounds different. hard to explain. sounds ok at idle, but it has an ever so faint grinding kind of sound on acceleration. seems i'm the only one that can hear it though. the mechanic at work says i'm fvckin' crazy.

You can hear the idle in the mornings. It is not hearing persay but sensing. The acceleration in the morning issue is a prime example. The grinding sound on acceleration may not be an EGR issue. Have you removed it? Look an see if the valve of the EGR make a similar noise if you manually open and close it.

You can also try and reproduce the accelertion in gear vs. out of gear. If it was an EGR issue, load doesn't typically matter as it is noticed by a very rough idle.

Also, if you replace, only replace it with GM. For some reason on that particular part, the re-pops typically don't do well. It is a $$ part, but well worth it.

Finally, it can all be in your head.

 

[Flipx99 5,000+ posts]

You must be the most outwardly stupid person on this forum. First off, if japanese cars are so "Cheap" and "Crappy" then why is TOYOTA almost at the point of selling more units in north america than GM, Ford, and Chrysler put together? Why is it that 80's era toyota and nissan trucks, in half decent shape, are STILL selling for $3-4k? Have you ever worked on a japanese car? Ever worked on a domestic, namely a GM? Ever try to install a stereo in a GM? A modern one? Its quite possibly the worst experience known to man. GM is they only company I know of that is stupid enough to put a computer module that has engine diagnostics, chime function, and other vital computer functions in the radio system! Mechanically most domestics are pretty simple... but ever work on a 90's GM sedan with a v6 in it? Not fun. Ever work on a nissan or honda 4 banger? Simplest motors in the universe.
Not that I'm 100% import, but up until recent years, the domestic market has been consistently second rate compared to the japanese automakers.

I would put the Quad 4 against any Jap motor in terms of simplicity.

I hate GM for that diagnostic stuff as well. They do it to twart aftermarket installation of CD players, not because they are ignorant. (However, aftermarket support is key to my choice of vehicles. If a car has little aftermarket support, I am less likely to buy)

 

[azimuth 5,000+ posts]

You can hear the idle in the mornings. It is not hearing persay but sensing. The acceleration in the morning issue is a prime example. The grinding sound on acceleration may not be an EGR issue. Have you removed it? Look an see if the valve of the EGR make a similar noise if you manually open and close it.
You can also try and reproduce the accelertion in gear vs. out of gear. If it was an EGR issue, load doesn't typically matter as it is noticed by a very rough idle.

Also, if you replace, only replace it with GM. For some reason on that particular part, the re-pops typically don't do well. It is a $$ part, but well worth it.

Finally, it can all be in your head.

probably the "in my head" part. i also put some bosch spark plugs in. it actually runs worse than the 80,000 mile delco's that were in it. switching back tomorrow to ac delco.

 

[Flipx99 5,000+ posts]

You got any tips on number 3. I am guessing I will have to replace mine next spring. It looks like a bitch to get to.

 

[phantom240 5,000+ posts]

I would put the Quad 4 against any Jap motor in terms of simplicity.
I hate GM for that diagnostic stuff as well. They do it to twart aftermarket installation of CD players, not because they are ignorant. (However, aftermarket support is key to my choice of vehicles. If a car has little aftermarket support, I am less likely to buy)

Well when you have an '04 cavalier with only 60k miles and the entire radio burns itself out, aftermarket is key to LIFE! lol.

I swear that car is a lemon. an '04, and his speedometer doesnt work, it rides like ***, the dash is cracked, has transmission problems, squeaks above 5mph, and I forget what all else. lemonzorz ftl.

 

[Flipx99 5,000+ posts]

Well when you have an '04 cavalier with only 60k miles and the entire radio burns itself out, aftermarket is key to LIFE! lol.
I swear that car is a lemon. an '04, and his speedometer doesnt work, it rides like ***, the dash is cracked, has transmission problems, squeaks above 5mph, and I forget what all else. lemonzorz ftl.

But that is anecdotal. You forget that this car and the hundred you may hear about are only a small fraction of production numbers.

 

[phantom240 5,000+ posts]

probably the "in my head" part. i also put some bosch spark plugs in. it actually runs worse than the 80,000 mile delco's that were in it. switching back tomorrow to ac delco.

Thats because Bosch is horrible. Ask any experienced mechanic. They have horrible blowby, and have a habit of not firing correctly. I had the same problem in my acura. made it backfire left and right, and drove like ***... so I bought some 92cent NGK copper core plugs, and it ran great. Bosch FTMFL.

 

[faulkton 5,000+ posts]

//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/frown.gif.a3531fa0534503350665a1e957861287.gif

 

[phantom240 5,000+ posts]

But that is anecdotal. You forget that this car and the hundred you may hear about are only a small fraction of production numbers.

I know this much. I honestly think his car is a lemon.

 

[IamDeMan 5,000+ posts]

good info. Comfort ride is about the only thing GM has going for them, other than that the foreign cars own GM vehicles as far as value and reliability

Resale, sure. reliability? your off your rocker. there is no runaway winner in that category anymore. They all have similiar stats of problemns per 100 vehicles mad across their model platforms. Late 80s and early 90s you may have had a solid case, not today in an age of cross-tech sharing between mfgs, it just doesn't exist. Resale is another story though. The Japs do win out, but this is of no concern to me. I get employee discounting on top of special promotions so me buying GM is a no-brainer.