What Wattage is too expensive?

[Water Bear]

Thanks for the heads up. What's the difference though?

Basically it's the multiple of the AH rating you can draw instantly. So a 10 AH battery with a 100 C discharge rating can pull 1000 amps in short bursts. Similar notion for charge rating. At least that's my understanding based on reading between the lines a bit...winky knows.

 

[Original wis]

Basically it's the multiple of the AH rating you can draw instantly. So a 10 AH battery with a 100 C discharge rating can pull 1000 amps in short bursts. Similar notion for charge rating. At least that's my understanding based on reading between the lines a bit...winky knows.

I literally asked this question today at a sound shop and that was the answer I was given... Get a couple lithium from eBay.

Either way thanks again. I'll look for those c ratings.

That does bring up the question of... What is a good lithium brand to use them?

 

[Water Bear]

I literally asked this question today at a sound shop and that was the answer I was given... Get a couple lithium from eBay.

Either way thanks again. I'll look for those c ratings.

That does bring up the question of... What is a good lithium brand to use them?

Depends on whether you're building your own or going for something off the shelf. XS and Limitless are the two big dogs in town. A few people here have built some nice banks and they can speak to it. FYI:

LTO is the best you can get for car audio but it is not plug and play. Not compatible with lead acid / AGM so you have to remove your under hood battery. Also you cannot put LTO or LiFePO4 in the engine bay, so you will have to install LTO somewhere in your cabin. Also do not exceed 14.8 charge voltage.

LiFePO4 is compatible with your under hood AGM but it's wise to use an isolator. Again, don't exceed 14.8 charge voltage for long. Generally the C ratings are lower than LTO by a noticeable amount but it's still miles better than any AGM. This is one of the safest chemistries from a fire perspective.

 

[Original wis]

Depends on whether you're building your own or going for something off the shelf. XS and Limitless are the two big dogs in town. A few people here have built some nice banks and they can speak to it. FYI:

LTO is the best you can get for car audio but it is not plug and play. Not compatible with lead acid / AGM so you have to remove your under hood battery. Also you cannot put LTO or LiFePO4 in the engine bay, so you will have to install LTO somewhere in your cabin. Also do not exceed 14.8 charge voltage.

LiFePO4 is compatible with your under hood AGM but it's wise to use an isolator. Again, don't exceed 14.8 charge voltage for long. Generally the C ratings are lower than LTO by a noticeable amount but it's still miles better than any AGM. This is one of the safest chemistries from a fire perspective.

I'm just going to build a 48ah headway. Any recommendations for a bms and a balancer for 24 headway batteries?

 

[winkychevelle 10+ year member]

Thanks for the heads up. What's the difference though?

C rate is the rate at which a batt can discharge relative to ah

1 c on a 8ah batt is only 8amp
10c is 80amps

Scale that up to 300ah at 10c and that's 3000amps of available current.

3000amp×14.4v=43200w×75% efficiency=32400w

You can get cells with c ratings as high as 75c but most decent lithium cells that are used in care audio are at least 5c but mostly 10c.

Headways you should consider 5c
Yinglong 10c
Lishen 10c
Plannano 10c

They are actually a little higher but you should be a little conservative because they will sag in cell voltage when you get near the max c rating of the cell.

 

[winkychevelle 10+ year member]

Depends on whether you're building your own or going for something off the shelf. XS and Limitless are the two big dogs in town. A few people here have built some nice banks and they can speak to it. FYI:

LTO is the best you can get for car audio but it is not plug and play. Not compatible with lead acid / AGM so you have to remove your under hood battery. Also you cannot put LTO or LiFePO4 in the engine bay, so you will have to install LTO somewhere in your cabin. Also do not exceed 14.8 charge voltage.

LiFePO4 is compatible with your under hood AGM but it's wise to use an isolator. Again, don't exceed 14.8 charge voltage for long. Generally the C ratings are lower than LTO by a noticeable amount but it's still miles better than any AGM. This is one of the safest chemistries from a fire perspective.

6s lto you should charge above 14.8v no harn in charging lower but you lose capacity 14.8v is only 70% charged iirc
5s lto don't charge above 14v unless you want cell degradation

4s lifepo4 max charge is 14.4 but 14.6 isn't typically a problem

And if you build an insulated box that won't get above the cells maximum operating temp under hood is fine. Not recommended but they can handle decent heat.

It is most common to do a under hood delete.

Lifepo4 is likely stronger without the under hood agm than with it.

 

[Original wis]

6s lto you should charge above 14.8v no harn in charging lower but you lose capacity 14.8v is only 70% charged iirc
5s lto don't charge above 14v unless you want cell degradation

4s lifepo4 max charge is 14.4 but 14.6 isn't typically a problem

And if you build an insulated box that won't get above the cells maximum operating temp under hood is fine. Not recommended but they can handle decent heat.

It is most common to do a under hood delete.

Lifepo4 is likely stronger without the under hood agm than with it.

What's is 4s, 5s, 6s?
My car charges at 14.7 pretty consistently. Is that bad?
I looked up yinlong and everything that returned was hundreds to thousands of dollars. Is that correct?

 

[winkychevelle 10+ year member]

What's is 4s, 5s, 6s?
My car charges at 14.7 pretty consistently. Is that bad?
I looked up yinlong and everything that returned was hundreds to thousands of dollars. Is that correct?

That's how many sells in series it takes to make a bank.

4 8ah headways make 1 8ah batt

Just like with subs you wire in series to add up voltage to get where you need.

2.8v lto ×6 cells is 16.8v
2.6v lto× 5 cells is 14v
3.6v lifepo4 ×4 is 14.4v

If you are consistently above 14.4v you want 6s lto

YINLONG 6Pack 2.3V 40Ah Cylindrical Battery LTO Cells

YINLONG 6Pack LTO battery, with the characters of, fast charge in 6mins, wide temp range (-50°~60°)no fire, no explosion, high security and high efficiency.

srikobatteries.com

Thes are 2.3v cells so in 6s any charge above 13.8v is positive but they aren't fully charged till 15.8v iirc

Jim's machine works economy bars and a 6s lto cells balancer with the previously links cells would support 4kw

Yinlong Economy buss bar sets

Yinlong Economy buss bar sets, designed and made with a budget in mind, these are available in 1,2,3,4,5,6,8 and 10 bank sizes, these include 5 links,2 lug type end bars, 3/8" lug bolts, m12 nuts and balancing screws, the single bank size DOES NOT INCLUDE THE END BARS, you will need to order...

jims-machineworkx.myshopify.com

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08JCL4G2X/?tag=caraudiocom-20

That's what 500ish with case materials for 400amps of capability.

 

[Original wis]

That's how many sells in series it takes to make a bank.

4 8ah headways make 1 8ah batt

Just like with subs you wire in series to add up voltage to get where you need.

2.8v lto ×6 cells is 16.8v
2.6v lto× 5 cells is 14v
3.6v lifepo4 ×4 is 14.4v

If you are consistently above 14.4v you want 6s lto

YINLONG 6Pack 2.3V 40Ah Cylindrical Battery LTO Cells

YINLONG 6Pack LTO battery, with the characters of, fast charge in 6mins, wide temp range (-50°~60°)no fire, no explosion, high security and high efficiency.

srikobatteries.com

Thes are 2.3v cells so in 6s any charge above 13.8v is positive but they aren't fully charged till 15.8v iirc

Jim's machine works economy bars and a 6s lto cells balancer with the previously links cells would support 4kw

Yinlong Economy buss bar sets

Yinlong Economy buss bar sets, designed and made with a budget in mind, these are available in 1,2,3,4,5,6,8 and 10 bank sizes, these include 5 links,2 lug type end bars, 3/8" lug bolts, m12 nuts and balancing screws, the single bank size DOES NOT INCLUDE THE END BARS, you will need to order...

jims-machineworkx.myshopify.com

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08JCL4G2X/?tag=caraudiocom-20

That's what 500ish with case materials for 400amps of capability.

Thanks man i got it now. Much appreciated!

 

[metalheadjoe 10+ year member]

Maybe not due to a splash, but it depends on what a "splash" was. The coincidence is pretty hard to ignore in his case. There's also a difference between "put it underwater then let it dry out and it still worked" and "put it underwater and tried to run it." Like a hair dryer. Maybe he dumped liquid in it and then cranked his car.

Let me clarify. My alternator was nearly submerged while my winch was running, which draws more current than 90% of car stereos. I agree it would be quite the coincidence if he got it wet and it suddenly quit working. Devil's advocate.

 

[Jake321]

The same model alternator and battery your car came with. I ran about 1.5k combined in a Subaru Legacy for years with no problems and ran that same setup in the Tahoe for a while, too. Seems pretty doable for most decent sized vehicles. If you go much beyond that it gets iffy.

It's like someone said before. When you get to a certain point there's a lot of cost in the electrical upgrades themselves. The good news is that it's kind of satisfying to do the electrical mods IMO.

But once you get your new alt you'll be in better shape than ever before... that's good news right?

Great

 

[mat3833 10+ year member]

If you look at my bank you can see its 12 individual cells. 6 pairs of 2. My bank is an 80AH 6s2p bank. I charge at 14.4v which is way below this banks maximum charge voltage. LTO likes about 2.7v-2.8v per cell so 14v on a 5s bank is safe. 14.4v on a 5s is still "safe" but I opted to run 6s and make my bank happier. I can theoretically charge at 17v and be perfectly fine.

I've jumped a Cummins straight 6, 6.0 powerstroke, and an old bobcat with my bank all in the span of about 30 minutes, played music for another 30 minutes, and then started my car just fine, lol. I've been intentionally pushing my bank to see what I can get away with, and honestly I don't think it will let me down.

I haven't finished cleaning everything up and building the final mount for it, but it's bolted to the base so it can't move. It weighs about 60ish pounds, maybe a bit more not really sure.

Matt

 

[Water Bear]

View attachment 45655


If you look at my bank you can see its 12 individual cells. 6 pairs of 2. My bank is an 80AH 6s2p bank. I charge at 14.4v which is way below this banks maximum charge voltage. LTO likes about 2.7v-2.8v per cell so 14v on a 5s bank is safe. 14.4v on a 5s is still "safe" but I opted to run 6s and make my bank happier. I can theoretically charge at 17v and be perfectly fine.

I've jumped a Cummins straight 6, 6.0 powerstroke, and an old bobcat with my bank all in the span of about 30 minutes, played music for another 30 minutes, and then started my car just fine, lol. I've been intentionally pushing my bank to see what I can get away with, and honestly I don't think it will let me down.

I haven't finished cleaning everything up and building the final mount for it, but it's bolted to the base so it can't move. It weighs about 60ish pounds, maybe a bit more not really sure.

Matt

That's the thing I need to read up on. 6s could handle my charge voltage (>= 15V for a long time after cranking) but I am always worried I'll be too close to the minimum charge for the cells. Clearly you aren't having problems.

 

[Original wis]

View attachment 45655


If you look at my bank you can see its 12 individual cells. 6 pairs of 2. My bank is an 80AH 6s2p bank. I charge at 14.4v which is way below this banks maximum charge voltage. LTO likes about 2.7v-2.8v per cell so 14v on a 5s bank is safe. 14.4v on a 5s is still "safe" but I opted to run 6s and make my bank happier. I can theoretically charge at 17v and be perfectly fine.

I've jumped a Cummins straight 6, 6.0 powerstroke, and an old bobcat with my bank all in the span of about 30 minutes, played music for another 30 minutes, and then started my car just fine, lol. I've been intentionally pushing my bank to see what I can get away with, and honestly I don't think it will let me down.

I haven't finished cleaning everything up and building the final mount for it, but it's bolted to the base so it can't move. It weighs about 60ish pounds, maybe a bit more not really sure.

Matt

Where did you purchase the cells?

 

[mat3833 10+ year member]

Where did you purchase the cells?

I got the cells from Hispls on here. Buss bars, case, and balancer were Jim's standard bars, Loud AF battery case, and Amazon.

Matt