New system installed… maybe my expectations are too high?

[Old_Slapper]

Thanks for the big write up. I'm looking at the invoice now, it says these aftermarket 2ohm speakers are compatible with the factory Bose system so I'm not sure how it's wired. I haven't spent any time on the equalizer settings, but I know the Bass EXT is off and the SW level is at 0.

I just spent $5500 on this set up, I considered amping the door speakers, but they wanted another $1400. I figured I was going to be happy enough by just upgrading from the Bose speakers. But that speaker literally blew a week later. It's going back to the shop Friday and I hope they warranty that blown speaker.

That setup should be beating the crap out of you. You should have the amps gain up to about 75% to 85%. If you have an external bass knob, you wouldn't need to up the bass boost on the amp. The subs could be out of phase, but usually you will hear hardly any bass. When playing a really bassy song, look to see if your subs move in the same direction. Try turning your Subsonic filter off. It might be bad, which I have seen. Either way, for what you paid, that shop should review every part of that install.

 

[Deiimos]

That setup should be beating the crap out of you. You should have the amps gain up to about 75% to 85%. If you have an external bass knob, you wouldn't need to up the bass boost on the amp. The subs could be out of phase, but usually you will hear hardly any bass. When playing a really bassy song, look to see if your subs move in the same direction. Try turning your Subsonic filter off. It might be bad, which I have seen. Either way, for what you paid, that shop should review every part of that install.

It wasn’t until a few years back I realized shops charge so much to install fairly basic systems. A neighbor got a quote of like $4500 for a pretty tame upgrade over OEM stuff on an older car. I'm not knocking the prices people pay, stuff costs money, but you would think you could talk to the shop to try to get it dialed in at that much money invested.

But yeah, those Kicker 12’s should be capable of pretty high output.

Be interesting to find out what the cause ends up being.

 

[1aespinoza Premium Member]

Humor us... put your sub level in the head unit at max and then see how it sounds at volume 28.

I always max the bass at the headunit and control it with the amp and bassknob.

 

[1aespinoza Premium Member]

Bass EXT is off and the SW level is at 0.

Here is your issue. Unless zero is the max bass volume.

 

[EricF]

Here is your issue. Unless zero is the max bass volume.

Thanks, I'll play with this setting when I'm off shift. I figured zero would be "middle ground". I always left head unit bass EQ at zero on all of my previous set ups when running an external bass knob. But maybe on this head unit zero is messing it all up.

 

[EricF]

It wasn’t until a few years back I realized shops charge so much to install fairly basic systems. A neighbor got a quote of like $4500 for a pretty tame upgrade over OEM stuff on an older car. I'm not knocking the prices people pay, stuff costs money, but you would think you could talk to the shop to try to get it dialed in at that much money invested.

But yeah, those Kicker 12’s should be capable of pretty high output.

Be interesting to find out what the cause ends up being.

I'll report back shortly.

It's hard to find a really knowledgeable shop in my area. I've always had quirks; I had lots of bass roll off issues on my last truck that took multiple trips back to the shop to figure it out. Not to mention a burnt-up amp.

I had ordered a 15" Kicker L7R to put in this truck instead and I reached out to multiple shops to build a box. All in the $2-2500+ range. I went this route instead

 

[Doxquzme Premium Member]

The dual 12's have aproximatley 30% more cone area than a single 15", so they will play lower, and output will be higher, even on the same power.

I'll always take dual drivers of the next smaller size versus one of the larger drivers, just math really.

As long as it works relative to the size of the enclosure, I prefer to use duals over a single whenever I can.

 

[BP1Fanatic]

Cone area always rule when it comes to bass.

 

[ThxOne Premium Member]

I'm telling you... to get max voltage out of the Kenwood eXcelon subwoofer RCA's you will need to be at volume 39-40 on the head unit to get right near or at 5v to send to the sub amp. At volume 28 where you said the speakers were screaming the Kenwood is only sending way less than 2v to the sub amp. This will make the speakers loud as you described and the subs would sound pathetic by comparison.

Set the sub crossover in the head unit to 80 -
Set the crossover to 250 on the amp -
Turn off the subsonic filter on the amp -

NOW!!!!!
DO THIS FIRST!!! Set the sub volume at 10 inside the Kenwood!!!
Turn the bass knob to max
Play a 40hz test tone and turn the amplifier gain up slowly. KEEP THE HEAD UNIT VOLUME AT 26ish. If you can't get it to slam this way then something is actually wrong.

 

[Hawaiian55]

Here's a huge problem that I have encountered throughout my years in the car audio world. It is...."Music".... Yup, a lot of the time it's the kind of music that is being played. I know it sounds weird but different genres have different kinds of bass. You'll hear the bass from rap music but not the bass from country. Or should I say barely hear the bass. If you haven't already, spend 200 dollars on a audio control epicenter. You'll thank me later. Not saying this will fix your problem, but I have helped tons of people by telling them this.

 

[Doxquzme Premium Member]

Well, not a country music fan per se, ( excluding some rap and re-bassed music), they utilize some of the cleanest, bass-strong recordings in the industry.

Which leads me back to the Epicenters adding bass that isn't there and LOCs, or any equipment that utilizes AccuBASS: it's not nearly as much the genre as the recordings and the era limitations at the time/ERA the music was recorded in that limit/negate low-end output.

It may also be a result of OEM head units limiting low-frequency output as volume goes up.

They do different things for different reasons.

Purpose:
AccuBASS fixes bass loss (roll-off) at high volumes in OEM stereos. The Epicenter adds deep, sub-bass harmonics to music that lacks them (e.g., oldies, rock, metal).

Operation:
AccuBASS restores the bass that is there, but removed by the OEM radio. The Epicenter creates bass that isn't present.

Frequency Range:
AccuBASS generally operates in the 50–125 Hz range. The Epicenter focuses on 27–63 Hz.

Usage Example (AccuBASS):
You turn your factory stereo volume up, and the bass gets quieter (rolls off) compared to the mids/highs. AccuBASS triggers at a certain threshold to maintain consistent bass.

Usage Example (The Epicenter):
You are playing a song from the 1960s-1970s or a recording that sounds "thin." The Epicenter adds synthetic sub-bass to create a "chest-thumping" effect.

I would wager his issues are related to either the coils on one of the subs being wired out of phase (or it's got a polarity issue or damaged coil internally) or the two subs are wired out of phase, which has a dramatic effect on the bass output, and not in a good way.

Will be interesting to see if the OP comes back and lets us know what the shop found.

 

[ThxOne Premium Member]

I don't remember what group it was but I was listening to a country song, a popular one that I had heard many times on stereo's without subs or on headphones. What I heard was some of the strongest and hardest hitting bass notes I'd heard in music, period. Country music will also add sound effects to their music including sub-bass sounds. Sometimes I will throw in some country to get an idea of just how good the setup is because most Country music is without distorted guitars and bass so speakers can really shine.

 

[Doxquzme Premium Member]

Chris Isaak, "Wicked Game" is a great example of country-ish recorded well. Most CW tunes are recorded pretty well and have great instrumentals and bass.

And it's not that I wouldn't enjoy more of it, but at 65, I've accumulated SOOO much music, who's got time to take on another entire genre?

I don't - but I try...

 

[AnthonyO 10+ year member]

It looks like the subs are firing into the car and not towards the trunk?

If I am seeing this right, try this?

Listen to one of your songs, then open your trunk. If it gets louder, your subs are cancelling because they are not completely sealed from the trunk.

 

[EricF]

It looks like the subs are firing into the car and not towards the trunk?

If I am seeing this right, try this?

Listen to one of your songs, then open your trunk. If it gets louder, your subs are cancelling because they are not completely sealed from the trunk.

All the boxes for the avalanches fire towards the cab. The box sure looks like it’s got a perfect seal. But I could try that tomorrow for the hell of it.