What is Your Definition of a SQ Sub?

[shimmyz 10+ year member]

Ok guys, This is a little long winded but it should make for some good discusion.

I've been out of car audio for almost 10 years. Alot has changed in that amount of time. I see the term SQ tossed around alot on this board. I'm in the market for some new sub(s). I've seen the question a million times "what is a good SQ sub". I am not asking that question. I'm asking WHY you recomend a specific SQ sub.

I see alot of "buy an Fi Q" ,for example, followed by a video link to someone with an 18" Q flexing a roof 3 inches. Or my brand X sub handles 1500 watts. Where is the SQ in that? Because it doesnt distort at full volume? I'm thinking the definition of SQ has changed now that a 1000 watt amp cost $250. Back in the day a quality amp cost around $1 a watt (as a rule of thumb).

I still have one of my old Earthquake LS 12" subs. I would like to find something that sounds similar to it. I think its a great all around sub. If I set my crossover at 70Hz the LS plays all of the frequency smoothly and at equal volume.

Most of the heavily mentioned "SQ" subs I see on this board thrive in the low low end (50Hz and lower). A 45hz note is 4 times the volume of a 60Hz note. How is this good SQ? What about some upper bass? Is rap all that's listened to anymore? Even in alot of rap one is missing alot of the bass line because of these booming subs. Listen to your favorite showoff songs through a set of decent headphones if you don't believe me.

If I listen to a song on a good set of headphones I can hear every note that is in the bassline of a song. I want the same thing in my car also. The old trusty LS does this at low and loud listening. Is there any new subs out there that can do this? I hope there is

My definition is: a sub that plays at a smooth volume level across the frequency range that my crossover is set to. The sub also must sound like what is supposed to. A bass guitar needs to sound like a bass guitar. A kick drum sounds like a kick drum, not and electronic drum machine. I want it "musical" not sounding like someone kicking the side of a dumpster (boom boom boom).

Have at it guys. What is SQ to you? If you name a specific sub please make sure you have owned one. I want some firsthand info.

Thanks

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[mokedaddy 5,000+ posts]

Well lets see here.

First of all box and installation is more important than the sub. Just about any sub can sound good or like shit.

Second, sq, by definition, the accurate reproduction of music. This does not always sound good, so keep that in mind.

Third, we will need more information as to what you are trying to accomplish such as vehicle, budget, size constraints, sealed or ported, music you listen to, power you will have available and the rest of the equipment you will be using.

 

[audioholic 5,000+ posts]

Ok guys, This is a little long winded but it should make for some good discusion.
I've been out of car audio for almost 10 years. Alot has changed in that amount of time. I see the term SQ tossed around alot on this board. I'm in the market for some new sub(s). I've seen the question a million times "what is a good SQ sub". I am not asking that question. I'm asking WHY you recomend a specific SQ sub.

I see alot of "buy an Fi Q" ,for example, followed by a video link to someone with an 18" Q flexing a roof 3 inches. Or my brand X sub handles 1500 watts. Where is the SQ in that? Because it doesnt distort at full volume? I'm thinking the definition of SQ has changed now that a 1000 watt amp cost $250. Back in the day a quality amp cost around $1 a watt (as a rule of thumb).

I still have one of my old Earthquake LS 12" subs. I would like to find something that sounds similar to it. I think its a great all around sub. If I set my crossover at 70Hz the LS plays all of the frequency smoothly and at equal volume.

Most of the heavily mentioned "SQ" subs I see on this board thrive in the low low end (50Hz and lower). A 45hz note is 4 times the volume of a 60Hz note. How is this good SQ? What about some upper bass? Is rap all that's listened to anymore? Even in alot of rap one is missing alot of the bass line because of these booming subs. Listen to your favorite showoff songs through a set of decent headphones if you don't believe me.

If I listen to a song on a good set of headphones I can hear every note that is in the bassline of a song. I want the same thing in my car also. The old trusty LS does this at low and loud listening. Is there any new subs out there that can do this? I hope there is

My definition is: a sub that plays at a smooth volume level across the frequency range that my crossover is set to. The sub also must sound like what is supposed to. A bass guitar needs to sound like a bass guitar. A kick drum sounds like a kick drum, not and electronic drum machine. I want it "musical" not sounding like someone kicking the side of a dumpster (boom boom boom).

Have at it guys. What is SQ to you? If you name a specific sub please make sure you have owned one. I want some firsthand info.

Thanks

So, enclosure size/type/alignment plays no role in it? You mention how smooth your old earthquake sub plays, but fail to even mention the enclosure, the vehicle, the tuning or alignment, etc. You mention how popular subs thrive in the lowest octaves, but gain fail to mention anything about the enclosure's role.
"My definition is: a sub that plays at a smooth volume level across the frequency range that my crossover is set to."

While I applaud you on your search for sonic nirvana, if we are talking about raw drivers then your definition just leaves way too many variables out.

My definition of a SQ sub system is one that accurately reproduces the original recording. To accomplish this, the sub system's design must incorporate such variables as input power, environment, of course its enclosure (size/type/alignment/positioning/etc), and the rest of the system it is to be paired with. You can make a decent subwoofer sound very good if you attack all the variables with equal thought.

When is the last time you heard of someone mapping out their vehicle's frequency response (transfer function) when designing a sub stage, for example? When's the last time someone here asked which subs to choose, and someone bothered to ask what he was running for a front stage, or even mids/midbass? Today people just buy subs with alot of xmax, tune their ported box low, throw it in thr trunk, hit the sub with 1500 watts they call headroom, and viola modern SQ setup. Take example from those people what not to do.

 

[shimmyz 10+ year member]

Well lets see here.
First of all box and installation is more important than the sub. Just about any sub can sound good or like shit.

Second, sq, by definition, the accurate reproduction of music. This does not always sound good, so keep that in mind.

Third, we will need more information as to what you are trying to accomplish such as vehicle, budget, size constraints, sealed or ported, music you listen to, power you will have available and the rest of the equipment you will be using.

I have a tahoe. Box size is not an issue really. sealed ported it doesn't matter to me. I'm not really sure about budget for the subs. If I find something that sounds good I'm willing to pay for it. I listen to about 70% rock 30%rap. And yes I want accurate reproduction of music, just not in a narrow 35-50 Hz range. Something that covers a broader area is what i want

 

[shimmyz 10+ year member]

It's running In a 1.8 cubic ft ported tuned to 35 HZ as recommended by earthquake. It's getting around 600 watts (to much for it). I would like to get some new subs that can handle more power but sound similar. This sub has been in alot of different boxes and vehicles, powered by different amps over the years. It has always had the same characteristics. Not sound the same exactly but I could tell it was an LS.

I know the importance of an enclosure and vehicle and everything else that goes with it. But I also know Im not going to get a sub with a Fs of 22Hz to do what I want it to, I dont care who designs and builds the box. Ive owned some junk in my time but nothing ever sounded bad. But i've seen alot people with nice stuff make it sound like shit

 

[jco1385 5,000+ posts]

my sub is my definition of SQ sub. but i have never heard an "SQ" setup.

 

[evenflow76 10+ year member]

I am running into the same situation and cant agree more with shimmy! I have two RE SE 12's and have tried both sealed and ported applications with 1200 watts out of an old Soundstream Referance 1000S (real power) in an 04 Tahoe and i HATE them! once they go above 50htz you might as well clap your hands rather than hear the higher notes. I definatlyh understand installation and box design come into play but trust me, i have tried several box sizes and port tunings (my friend owns a stereo shop) and the SE's are great at the low stuff but cant go high.

 

[mlstrass 5,000+ posts]

Stronger midbass would be a start, so you're not making the sub play the higher freqs.

 

[FoxPro5 5,000+ posts]

Phunkee Pup

 

[shimmyz 10+ year member]

Stronger midbass would be a start, so you're not making the sub play the higher freqs.

I dont disagree with you. but I know there are subwoofers that do it and dont sound muddy. Plus I feel a sub should play 65Hz with no issues. I have one now. I also remember owning and old pair of fosgate punch 10s. They did it too. It seems that most new subs have huge surrounds and are designed to pound the low stuff. I think they sound great at what they do but I don't want that

 

[mlstrass 5,000+ posts]

My definition of a SQ sub system is one that accurately reproduces the original recording.

I'll have to respectfully disagree with you on this one and I realize it's your opinion, so there's no right or wrong. Same with my opinion...

I run into the "accurately reproduce as the artist/producer intended" a lot on the HT forums I frequent. There's nothing wrong with that, but I prefer to design/tune a system to please my ears vs the holy grail of staying true to how it was recorded. Probably why I run my subs a few dB's hot as it adds to my viewing/listening pleasure.

I ran RL-P's for about a year and while they were very accurate sounding I didn't care for the dryness of the bass. They had punch, but seemed to lack impact. Others probably love/prefer that sound.

To the OP: There's plenty of modern day subs that can play relatively flat in sealed or ported enclosures. Add in some solid midbass/midrange and your favorite flavor of tweeters and a very nice daily SQ system can be achieved. Comp SQ is a whole different breed of course.

 

[jmanpc 5,000+ posts]

If box size isn't an issue, I'd recommend a Mach 5 Audio MJ18. Now before you start saying "Whoa! I don't need an 18," hear me out.

I had an MJ18 in 3.5 cubic feet sealed up on 600w, and it was absolutely beautiful. It was smooth, warm, and extremely accurate. It played from 30-80hz extremely well, and blended seamlessly with my midbasses. It was fun to listen to because it just sounded so darn good.

 

[Louisiana_CRX 5,000+ posts]

if you want true SQ find you a pair of Funky Pup subs and a Turbo amp //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/fyi.gif.9f1f679348da7204ce960cfc74bca8e0.gif

 

[James Bang 5,000+ posts]

I didn't read the original post, 'cause i dont' give a shit.

I think SQ should be used in terms of a whole system and not just a portion of it. You can have the highest praised "SQ" w/ a weak frontstage, and it'll still sound like shit. Would that "SQ" sub still be SQ?

 

[shimmyz 10+ year member]

If box size isn't an issue, I'd recommend a Mach 5 Audio MJ18. Now before you start saying "Whoa! I don't need an 18," hear me out.
I had an MJ18 in 3.5 cubic feet sealed up on 600w, and it was absolutely beautiful. It was smooth, warm, and extremely accurate. It played from 30-80hz extremely well, and blended seamlessly with my midbasses. It was fun to listen to because it just sounded so darn good.

All ideas are welcome. I'm not set on a size or amount of subs. I have looked at the MJ18. It seemed like a quality sub for a fair price. I was worried about no upper bass though.