what box for 4 10w7s+1 13w7?

[v2.0]

I just want to say one thing- italian superchip.

 

[audioholic 5,000+ posts]

no no i'll admit that, it was a dumb setup choice I made out of ignorance...but it did NOT sound bad or have significant cancellation problems... i mean seriously, even epoxy could not hold my rear-view mirrior on, my dask cracked from flex(also probly weakend from age and sun, but def. cracked during music, and the brackets on the back window broke and shattered my back window. (and before you go //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wow.gif.23d729408e9177caa2a0ed6a2ba6588e.gif the back window is connected very poorly with basically 2 bolts.)

So now you are stating you had no significant cancellation because the stereo vibrated stuff alot? Just as I suspected, your understanding of cancellation is extremely shallow to the point of not really understanding it.
Run two 12" subwoofers and measure the output. Now add a 15. Will this create unnecessary cancellation? Yes. Will it read louder on the meter still? Yes. Will it vibrate your mirror? Yes. A system having lots of output, and lots of cancellation, is not mutually exclusive. The more you try to convince us it is, and that your 20 highschool friends trained ears told you that you had none, the more we realize how poorly you grasp the topic we are discussing here. YOU dont even know what to look/listen for in cancellation, when we discuss it you come back with 'but but but... it rattled my mirror alot!'... so how can we expect that your 20 friends knew a freakin thing either? Ive seen more than 21 idiots gather in a school parking lot before. So anything is possible.

'Cancellation' may have been what caused your mirror to vibrate so much. Again, constructive interference would tend to artificially exaggerate certain frequencies. Yet all you seem to understand is cancellation = dips in output. Again, an extremely shallow understanding of the topic. Not meant as a flame, but to educate you on your position, and make you aware you still have alot more reading to do before you are ready to educate others on the subject.

and something else, i'm still not seeing a bassis for why Multi sup setups have more interference than same sub setups?

Then you aren't reading close enough. Here, let me repeat myself for you, again.
"The simple fact the the two different sub sizes had different Fs specs should tell you that they would display different frequency responses. And when you have two different drivers playing the same freq band but not displaying identical output at every freq, you will get cancellation. Some of it will be destructive, some of it constructive. IOW, some of the cancellation will diminish output at certain freqs, while at other freqs the 'cancellation' (or more specifically, interference) will boost output."

When you have two speakers playing the same frequency band, but displaying different response curves (like would happen with two different subs or even simply two different sizes), they will not work together very well. People think running an 18 for the low lows and a 10 for the high lows is a good idea. In reality, chances are the two subs displaying different response curves means they will interfere with each other, rather than support each other in a linear fashion (in terms of frequency response across their usable bandwidth). You might sit and listen to the truck and say 'it plays the low lows and the high lows fine, so I guess there is no interference' ... but reality is that human's do not have meters or digital read outs in our head to really know, we only know what sounds pleasing. The problem with your logic is, you have assumed that if it sounded good to you, it had little interference. You are unwilling to admit your ears are not trained well enough to discern, let alone your 20 friends in a highschool parking lot. If you had sat in the same vehicle, but it was using a single sub system that played the entire subbass bandwidth with equal authority, but whose output was considerably less than your 4-10's and 1 13.5 setup... would all those 20 highschool kids have said yours sounded "better"? probably.

Im still waiting for a valid reason why running multiple sized subs would be good/necessary/wanted. Cant come up with one, can you?

unless you are going to argue that different size subs play different frequencies,the difference in the sound waves is in amplitude and possibly THD of the individual drivers, which should be fairly inaudible anyway.

That being said the over-all potential for interference is less in waves

with different amplitudes than in those with the same.

This is due to the fact that when the amplitude of 2 waves are the same,

Complete cancellation is possible at all points in a cycle of the waves.

But in waves of different amplitudes, complete cancellation is only possible

at 2 exact points of differencial in the 2 waves in a single cycle.

at all other points, interference is attenuated compared to waves of the same amplitude.

And you ask why we think you are googling this shit. lol
Repeating what you read somewhere else onlyt means you know how to use a search engine. The problem with your latest google theory is nobody is talking about complete cancellation. The site you googled must have been referring to active sound cancellation, the idea of creating sound waves that will effectively negate an unwanted sound. Basically, using a speaker to make sound disappear. Not a new concept at all. but your misinterpretation of its meaning again shows you dont understand this topic well. You can and will have cancellation, that can and would be noticeable (if you know what to listen for), without having an exact opposite sound wave.

 

[Mc_Hammer 10+ year member]

haha... cot stop making yourself look even more like a dumbass

 

[GAM3OVR 5,000+ posts]

Actually it was 4 10w6v2 and 13w6v2

 

[rc10mike 10+ year member]

I dont know if this has been asked, but lets say you had an 18 and a 12. Ran seperate amps to each and had the 18 crossed at 40hz low pass and the 12 at 40-80hz. How will that work?

 

[audioholic 5,000+ posts]

I dont know if this has been asked, but lets say you had an 18 and a 12. Ran seperate amps to each and had the 18 crossed at 40hz low pass and the 12 at 40-80hz. How will that work?

You can run multiple sized subs effectively, if you do as you suggest, compose a relatively complex xover system for it. You may even find you want some over lap, under lap, or altered slopes. But reality tells us this is just not necessary. We are talking about the speakers in your system that are already required to play the fewest octaves (generally only 2 octaves worth of information). If you want to start dividing frequencies to alleviate stress on your drivers, get some dedicated midbass drivers that will run say 50hz-250hz. This will relieve your subs from being required to play upper bass, thereby increasing their performance in the lowest octaves. It will decrease stress on your midranges by not requiring them to play down to 80hz anymore (which means better performance AND increased output potential), AND it keeps your localizable midbass completely and totally up front, where its suppose to be.
People start wanting to run multiple sub sizes with extensive xover networks, and before you know it they are playing the smaller subs as midbass drivers, which they **** at, and tend to pull the sound stage rearward. I suggest that if your single sized sub system is incapable of playing 2 octaves well, you have other problems to address besides adding another sized subwoofer to the system.

Cheers.

 

[cotjones 10+ year member]

So now you are stating you had no significant cancellation because the stereo vibrated stuff alot? Just as I suspected, your understanding of cancellation is extremely shallow to the point of not really understanding it.
Run two 12" subwoofers and measure the output. Now add a 15. Will this create unnecessary cancellation? Yes. Will it read louder on the meter still? Yes. Will it vibrate your mirror? Yes. A system having lots of output, and lots of cancellation, is not mutually exclusive. The more you try to convince us it is, and that your 20 highschool friends trained ears told you that you had none, the more we realize how poorly you grasp the topic we are discussing here. YOU dont even know what to look/listen for in cancellation, when we discuss it you come back with 'but but but... it rattled my mirror alot!'... so how can we expect that your 20 friends knew a freakin thing either? Ive seen more than 21 idiots gather in a school parking lot before. So anything is possible.

Exactly! i'm not saying cancellation wasn't present, but never the less, no one would be able to tell you that, and if there were spots of cancellation i or the people riding in the car never found them.

'Cancellation' may have been what caused your mirror to vibrate so much. Again, constructive interference would tend to artificially exaggerate certain frequencies. Yet all you seem to understand is cancellation = dips in output. Again, an extremely shallow understanding of the topic. Not meant as a flame, but to educate you on your position, and make you aware you still have alot more reading to do before you are ready to educate others on the subject.

'Cancellation' is destructive interference, it accomanpies constructive interference. and thats just a theory also, just saying "oh it was cancellation that made your system loud" in no way proves your point

When you have two speakers playing the same frequency band, but displaying different response curves (like would happen with two different subs or even simply two different sizes), they will not work together very well. People think running an 18 for the low lows and a 10 for the high lows is a good idea. In reality, chances are the two subs displaying different response curves means they will interfere with each other, rather than support each other in a linear fashion (in terms of frequency response across their usable bandwidth). You might sit and listen to the truck and say 'it plays the low lows and the high lows fine, so I guess there is no interference' ... but reality is that human's do not have meters or digital read outs in our head to really know, we only know what sounds pleasing. The problem with your logic is, you have assumed that if it sounded good to you, it had little interference. You are unwilling to admit your ears are not trained well enough to discern, let alone your 20 friends in a highschool parking lot. If you had sat in the same vehicle, but it was using a single sub system that played the entire subbass bandwidth with equal authority, but whose output was considerably less than your 4-10's and 1 13.5 setup... would all those 20 highschool kids have said yours sounded "better"? probably.

//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wow.gif.23d729408e9177caa2a0ed6a2ba6588e.gif//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/confused.gif.e820e0216602db4765798ac39d28caa9.gif so it sounded great, everyone that sat in it was impressed, it had a relatively flat responce curve relatively the same from all 4 seats, but it had cancellation just because you say it did? lmao

Im still waiting for a valid reason why running multiple sized subs would be good/necessary/wanted. Cant come up with one, can you?

no, it's not the best idea, like getting a lower quality sub, but yes it still sounded good, just not as good as it could have

And you ask why we think you are googling this shit. lol
Repeating what you read somewhere else onlyt means you know how to use a search engine. The problem with your latest google theory is nobody is talking about complete cancellation. The site you googled must have been referring to active sound cancellation, the idea of creating sound waves that will effectively negate an unwanted sound. Basically, using a speaker to make sound disappear. Not a new concept at all. but your misinterpretation of its meaning again shows you dont understand this topic well. You can and will have cancellation, that can and would be noticeable (if you know what to listen for), without having an exact opposite sound wave.

dodging the question by saying i looked it up on google doesn't change anything.

2 waves of exactly the same magnitude have the potetial to interfere at every single point in the waves more than waves of different amplitudes. end of story FACT.

 

[Mc_Hammer 10+ year member]

two different sized subs with different T/s specs will not create two waves of the exact same magnitude at any given frequency cot... stop being a childish bish and admit that your wrong, everyone who reads this can see that pretty easily, whats so hard about admiting it?

i bet you the kind of douche who thinks they've never lost any arguement/competion in their life

 

[anj46907 10+ year member]

Nah, but I live 5 minutes from the University. There's too many one way streets in Nashville. Sucks if you don't know the town.

x2. i drive a semi for a living and deliver there alot imagine a semi coming down those **** streets:wow://content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/mad.gif.c18f003ab0ef8a0d9c27ca78d77a6392.gif//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/verymad.gif.3f39c5c2fd57527b671fad3efdfac756.gif:verymad://content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/verymad.gif.3f39c5c2fd57527b671fad3efdfac756.gif

 

[cotjones 10+ year member]

two different sized subs with different T/s specs will not create two waves of the exact same magnitude at any given frequency cot... stop being a childish bish and admit that your wrong, everyone who reads this can see that pretty easily, whats so hard about admiting it?
i bet you the kind of douche who thinks they've never lost any arguement/competion in their life

Congratulations you said exactly what i did...

Here is what happens when waves of the same amplitude destructively and constructively interfere:

Here is what happens when waves of different amplitude constructively and destructively interfere:

Notice that complete cancellation is only possible with waves of different magnitues at 2 specific points.

In an actual sound wave, this point will occur FAR less than the cancellation waves of the same amplitude, because the entire waveform no longer has the potential to cancel.

At ALL other points in the wave, the effects of interference are lessened, HOWEVER, in EXACTLY the same pattern as interference from waves of the same

magnitude! this means that the effects of cancellation are (at a given frequency) the same, but to a different degree...

to deny this is to deny not me, but the laws of physics.

Now if you were to agrue the following, it would be different:

At each frequency the patterns of cancellation are different.

At the same amplitude the interference follows the same pattern and thus is predictable and locational...

In different amplitudes however, Interference is not only a product of the points at which specific parts of the waves interact with each other (like same mag. waves) BUT ALSO the product of those waves being in a particular sequence... but since waves radiate from different sources, It is impossible to make them line up in perfect sequence, this acts to diffuse interference more uniformly...

From that, you can say that same sub setups have the potential to get louder but also have the potential to have more quiet spots,

Whereas multi amplitude setups diffuse the effects of interference across the entire field of listening.

This makes the sound as a whole seem quieter (cancelled, as you would say) because like i said, in a small environment such as a car, spots of cancellation are harder to detect because of reverberation. AND yes call it whatever you want (CGT sounds good to me) but when a wave reverberates into a space where sound was cancelled by the initial wave, it IS still a wave. The effects of the cancellation only apply to the original interacting waves.

Now taking this further, since the effects of cancellation between waves of different amplitude are based on a particular offset sequence, they differ from frequency to frequency, making the responce as audioholic put it "sporadic"

However, It is ALSO, 100% completely Grade-A SUBJECTIVE from case to case, car to car, speaker to speaker, enclosure to enclosure.

So my ONLY point is not that my system had a lack of interference,

ONLY that IT DID sound good and comparable to similar systems and that for you to sit here and say that, "that statement cannot possibly be true" shows either a lack in understanding of the subject yourself, or a blindness caused by a predisposition against me.

/soapbox

 

[Skip01 5,000+ posts]

hahahaha my god, this is exactly what he did last time......just stop digging a deeper hole that you could never get out of

Youre not gonna prove someone wrong with facts you dont understand

 

[cotjones 10+ year member]

hahahaha my god, this is exactly what he did last time......just stop digging a deeper hole that you could never get out of
Youre not gonna prove someone wrong with facts you dont understand

stfu and gtfo

 

[audioholic 5,000+ posts]

//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wow.gif.23d729408e9177caa2a0ed6a2ba6588e.gif//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/confused.gif.e820e0216602db4765798ac39d28caa9.gif so it sounded great, everyone that sat in it was impressed, it had a relatively flat responce curve relatively the same from all 4 seats, but it had cancellation just because you say it did? lmao

So you say it had no audible interference/cancellation because your highschool friends all said it sounded good. I wonder Cot, what color is the sky in the world you are living in?
Your proof that your system defied all the rules was a group of highschool kids that said it sounded good. It is obvious there is no arguing with someone who accepts that sort of mentality. I wish you well in your crystal palace, may it stand forever.

 

[Mc_Hammer 10+ year member]

so what your saying is that even tho the subs have diff t/s specs they will produce the EXACT same wave but at a diff. amplitude?

HA //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/fyi.gif.9f1f679348da7204ce960cfc74bca8e0.gif

 

[silenkiller 10+ year member]

You know, did you guys ever think that maybe someone just wanted to build their setup that way, with those mixed sized subs? I mean, its their decision to - and honestly, I doubt it sounded bad. Actually, it prolly sounded pretty darn loud, and I'd imagine SQ wise it was still pretty good based on the type of subs we're talking about. Sure, is it the best way to go? No, and I'm sure it has its draw backs - but you guys act like mixing one sub thats a different size all of a sudden emits fart sounds out of your car.

Jeeze just let someone be different?