what box for 4 10w7s+1 13w7?

[audioholic 5,000+ posts]

MAKING SHIT UP?!?! have you ever taken a physics class? Do you know anything about home theater... there are certain sweet spots caused by the cancellation of waves... the point is it always happens in small spots, NEVER the entire acoustic environment...

So you are saying you aligned the equipment perfectly so that the driver and passenger seats were your 'sweet spots' where you extinguished cancellation as we know it?
Or are you trying to suggest that because cancellation is localized, which it is, that this somehow excuses your system/vehicle from the constraints of erratic frequency response that would otherwise be present in a system with mismatched equipment? If so, Im anxiously awaiting the logic behind such a theory.

What's a physics class? Is that like home economics?

 

[cotjones 10+ year member]

two different sub sizes had different Fs specs should tell you that they would display different frequency responses. And when you have two different drivers playing the same freq band but not displaying identical output at every freq, you will get cancellation. Some of it will be destructive, some of it constructive. IOW, some of the cancellation will diminish output at certain freqs, while at other freqs the 'cancellation' (or more specifically, interference) will boost output. That's a given. It WILL happen, no matter what your 20 highschool friends told you.

the problem here is that the cancellation you are talking about will ALWAYS boost the output simultaneously at other locations. It is physically impossible to cancel or destructively interfere an entire sound wave.

 

[cotjones 10+ year member]

So you are saying you aligned the equipment perfectly so that the driver and passenger seats were your 'sweet spots' where you extinguished cancellation as we know it?
Or are you trying to suggest that because cancellation is localized, which it is, that this somehow excuses your system/vehicle from the constraints of erratic frequency response that would otherwise be present in a system with mismatched equipment? If so, Im anxiously awaiting the logic behind such a theory.

What's a physics class? Is that like home economics?

no because the car is so small, the sound reverberates so much that it would be almost impossible to detect the cancellation in most situations... this depends on the environment though

 

[audioholic 5,000+ posts]

the problem here is that the cancellation you are talking about will ALWAYS boost the output simultaneously at other locations. It is physically impossible to cancel or destructively interfere an entire sound wave.

the problem is you keep stating googled information that has nothing to do with the subject at hand. Or, are you prepared to explain how the fact that cancellation is localized has anything to do with your argument that your system had [almost] none. I thought I made it clear I was asking for this explanation in my previous reply. So either you are too dense to understand my direct questions to you, or you are dodging the question.
Google wont help you here my friend, you are already backed much too deep into this corner.

 

[audioholic 5,000+ posts]

no because the car is so small, the sound reverberates so much that it would be almost impossible to detect the cancellation in most situations... this depends on the environment though

Oh so reverberations cancel the cancellation in cars? //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/laugh.gif.48439b2acf2cfca21620f01e7f77d1e4.gif
This is what I get from you when I ask for even a reasonably technical explanation of one of your hair brained theories. I dont know why it surprises me, each and every time. But it always does.

 

[audioholic 5,000+ posts]

Well, you must still be busy googling cancellation+sound waves+audioholic is a mean jerk... Im gonna go work on cleaning out my shop so I can get my truck inside to work on it. All arguing aside, as Ive told you before Cot, if you ever want advice or information on what we are arguing about, and dont want to ask it here, you are welcome to PM me. But only if its to ask, and listen.

Cheers all.

 

[Skip01 5,000+ posts]

hahahahaha OMG....i left and came back to this, I seriously thought he at least learned who and who not too argue with....or just not at all anymore

Wow....i hope this gets bigger, i love him sounding smart with replies

 

[duece212 5,000+ posts]

The smartest thing I usually do is admit my ignorance where I am indeed ignorant. Its not that difficult.

 

[crownroyal 10+ year member]

god im glad i made this thread

 

[cotjones 10+ year member]

Well, you must still be busy googling cancellation+sound waves+audioholic is a mean jerk... Im gonna go work on cleaning out my shop so I can get my truck inside to work on it. All arguing aside, as Ive told you before Cot, if you ever want advice or information on what we are arguing about, and dont want to ask it here, you are welcome to PM me. But only if its to ask, and listen.
Cheers all.

sry went to arbys

no i'm saying that cancellation happens in spots... in the car the environment is so small that these spots don't happen as much as in an open environment, the waves bounce off the interior of the car and effectively "fill in" the gaps caused by destructive interference... again if you had a same sub setup you would have less cancellation. making multisub setups less ideal for metered extreme SPL applications, particularly when burping or playing a pure sine wave. for most daily applications however, MOST people would never know the difference. I would be willing to bet money someone who doesn't know my old system wouldn't be able to discern that i wasn't running 6 10's, a meter might, but not the average person

 

[audioholic 5,000+ posts]

sry went to arbys
no i'm saying that cancellation happens in spots... in the car the environment is so small that these spots don't happen as much as in an open environment, the waves bounce off the interior of the car and effectively "fill in" the gaps caused by destructive interference... again if you had a same sub setup you would have less cancellation. making multisub setups less ideal for metered extreme SPL applications, particularly when burping or playing a pure sine wave. for most daily applications however, MOST people would never know the difference. I would be willing to bet money someone who doesn't know my old system wouldn't be able to discern that i wasn't running 6 10's, a meter might, but not the average person

Lets try to extract the meat of your argument. You say the sound waves, due to the interior space being so small, will bounce around and "fill in the gaps" caused by interference.
So in essence, you admit the multi sub setup does create more interference, but go on to say it makes no difference in such a small environment. Due to your idea we will forever call the "Cotjones Gap theory".

If what you suggest were true, it would imply just the opposite of what you have previously regurgitated from google. You already stated, in a re-written to avoid plagiarism way, that cancellation is localized. But the Cotjones Gap theory, or CGt, suggests that any anomaly caused by interference would be "filled in" by reverberating waves. this would suggest no cancellation will be present, as all the gaps will be filled in. Or, again, are you suggesting that by some miracle, only you were able to accomplish the feat, in your car, with your equipment, by inverting your 13.5?

If this were true, that reverberating waves will fill in the gaps (CGt), why does frequency response change when you alter the firing direction of your subwoofers? //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/titanic.gif.8089b7552c370bcc138aa121756d0c0b.gif

Lastly, Im curious if you are ever planning on entering frequency (ie: wavelength) into your theory?

 

[cotjones 10+ year member]

Lets try to extract the meat of your argument. You say the sound waves, due to the interior space being so small, will bounce around and "fill in the gaps" caused by interference.
So in essence, you admit the multi sub setup does create more interference, but go on to say it makes no difference in such a small environment. Due to your idea we will forever call the "Cotjones Gap theory".

If what you suggest were true, it would imply just the opposite of what you have previously regurgitated from google. You already stated, in a re-written to avoid plagiarism way, that cancellation is localized. But the Cotjones Gap theory, or CGt, suggests that any anomaly caused by interference would be "filled in" by reverberating waves. this would suggest no cancellation will be present, as all the gaps will be filled in. Or, again, are you suggesting that by some miracle, only you were able to accomplish the feat, in your car, with your equipment, by inverting your 13.5?

If this were true, that reverberating waves will fill in the gaps (CGt), why does frequency response change when you alter the firing direction of your subwoofers? //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/titanic.gif.8089b7552c370bcc138aa121756d0c0b.gif

Lastly, Im curious if you are ever planning on entering frequency (ie: wavelength) into your theory?

//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/confused.gif.e820e0216602db4765798ac39d28caa9.gif What did i get from google?

i think i was a bit unclear about my problems with the setup, the only problem i ever noticeably had with cancellation was when the polarity of one of the sub chains was reversed... this happened because JL amps have a switch for it. I inverted the sub one day and noticed i had the same problem, reversing the polarity again solved it. but i kinda liked showing off the *** of the 13 so i left it. i'm not going to say that that problem was solely due to cancellation, cause i honestly have no idea, it's just a guess i was thinking it was more to electronic cancellation somehow... not so much acoustic just because of how drastic the difference was.

but I also had a problem in frequency responce, there was a huge peak, idr exactly what frequency i think its in an old thread... i inverting the sub also added airspace and flattened the responce curve...

 

[cotjones 10+ year member]

Lets try to extract the meat of your argument. You say the sound waves, due to the interior space being so small, will bounce around and "fill in the gaps" caused by interference.
So in essence, you admit the multi sub setup does create more interference, but go on to say it makes no difference in such a small environment. Due to your idea we will forever call the "Cotjones Gap theory".

If what you suggest were true, it would imply just the opposite of what you have previously regurgitated from google. You already stated, in a re-written to avoid plagiarism way, that cancellation is localized. But the Cotjones Gap theory, or CGt, suggests that any anomaly caused by interference would be "filled in" by reverberating waves. this would suggest no cancellation will be present, as all the gaps will be filled in. Or, again, are you suggesting that by some miracle, only you were able to accomplish the feat, in your car, with your equipment, by inverting your 13.5?

If this were true, that reverberating waves will fill in the gaps (CGt), why does frequency response change when you alter the firing direction of your subwoofers? //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/titanic.gif.8089b7552c370bcc138aa121756d0c0b.gif

Lastly, Im curious if you are ever planning on entering frequency (ie: wavelength) into your theory?

will you not flame me for using MS paint to explain a little better the "so called" CGT?

 

[cotjones 10+ year member]

will you not flame me for using MS paint to explain a little better the "so called" CGT?

ok nvm it was too time consuming just look at this

now imagine that signal reverberated hundreds of times because of the environment of the car being so small and it would be very hard to find big areas of interference. In larger rooms and home theater systems, this problem is more prevelant because of the increased distance the waves travel and reverberate and decay. this also means that interference is more prevelent at lower volumes ie: less and less powerful reverberation.

 

[GregU 10+ year member]

ok nvm it was too time consuming just look at this

Did you google that?