"SQ" System has no rear component?

[squeak9798 5,000+ posts]

I'd like to make the statement that I think trying to implement stereophonic replay in an automobile is a fruitless labor. I've come to know this via independent study and through my own experience. This then leaves the question of "to rear fill? or not to rear fill?" on the very end of a long list of questions that need to be answered with regards to optimal sound in a car.

Have you achieved a soundstage wider and deeper than the speakers themselves, with respectable imaging across that soundstage?

I'm sure you have. I know I have.

So what makes stereophonic replay a fruitless endeavor? You've essentially achieved the primary features/benefits.

It's not perfect. But I wouldn't call it fruitless.

 

[Fast1one 10+ year member]

Are you serious?!?
That is quite easily the most ignorant statement I've ever seen or heard.

How is it so ignorant? If the knowledge is available via external sources, then the ignorant should do the reading, simple as that....
If its a complicated subject that the reader cannot grasp, then teaching should ensue...have you been spoon fed all your life? //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/rolleyes.gif.c1fef805e9d1464d377451cd5bc18bfb.gif

 

[FoxPro5 5,000+ posts]

I don't see eye to eye with you, Squeak. That's obvious. You've been around long enough to know most of these threads have little means to an end. You seem to be suffering (yes, suffering) form this idea that all should be fair and balanced. That an even exchange, a diplomatic discussion is even possible on the internet. Your custom user title couldn't be more fitting.

Now it's time for my rant, since you had yours. "Hi, I'm Squeak the mod. I can drop my comments into any thread I want and rest comfortably. I see something that doesn't fit, leave. More comments I don't like...drop my own bla bla bla...maybe a //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/rolleyes.gif.c1fef805e9d1464d377451cd5bc18bfb.gif or two, and that's it."

Keep trying to maintain order in a sea of chaos, man. You'll get a CA.COM mod award one day, I'm sure. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif

It's all great and stuff that you've taken a logical route when need be, but be realistic, who the hell is going to follow up on all the extensive research you've done to make your points??? Unless you're using something like this for your own personal understanding, than that's a little different. Even then, no reply is needed. Usually, but the time you've really felt you've grasped the subject the thread is buried 5 pages down.

 

[FoxPro5 5,000+ posts]

Have you achieved a soundstage wider and deeper than the speakers themselves, with respectable imaging across that soundstage?
I'm sure you have. I know I have.

So what makes stereophonic replay a fruitless endeavor? You've essentially achieved the primary features/benefits.

It's not perfect. But I wouldn't call it fruitless.

Sure, I don't get in my car and cry automatically or anything. Frustrating, but I haven't thrown in the towel completely.

Sorry, fruitless was bad. I should've said insane instead.

Why fight the environment when you don't have to?? Nature doesn't present such restrictions upon us, why not just accept it and use better methods?

The point is not to fight, but to allow. A different allocation of energy then what the status quo suggests. Better possibilities. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

 

[squeak9798 5,000+ posts]

How is it so ignorant? If the knowledge is available via external sources, then the ignorant should do the reading, simple as that....
If its a complicated subject that the reader cannot grasp, then teaching should ensue...have you been spoon fed all your life? //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/rolleyes.gif.c1fef805e9d1464d377451cd5bc18bfb.gif

There is a HUGE difference between "spoon-feeding" and using your knowledge to teach and explain.

Honestly, stop and think about what you said.

All of those things you've ever read and learned from, were written by someone with knowledge who used that knowledge to teach. There's no difference here, except your lack of willingness. Were you "spoon fed" because you read a book on electronics written by someone more knowledgeable than yourself? Are your college professors or high school teachers "spoon feeding" you by using their knowledge and the knowledge contained in text books to teach you? So how are you "spoon feeding" someone by using your knowledge and experience to teach someone else less knowledgeable than yourself?

Image how the world would be if as knowledge was accumulated, it was not shared or taught because it would be "Spoon feeding" if the person wasn't capable of figuring it out on their own.

I've found the grand unified theory. But I'm not going to tell anyone, because I wouldn't want to spoon-feed them their knowledge. They need to figure it out on their own.

 

[FoxPro5 5,000+ posts]

Are you serious?!?
That is quite easily the most ignorant statement I've ever seen or heard.

You're changing the nature of our discussion now, or just ranting again?? //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/rolleyes.gif.c1fef805e9d1464d377451cd5bc18bfb.gif

How about this; no one cares what you think??? Not trying to be a dick, just sayin. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

 

[FoxPro5 5,000+ posts]

There is a HUGE difference between "spoon-feeding" and using your knowledge to teach and explain.
Honestly, stop and think about what you said.

All of those things you've ever read and learn from, were written by someone with knowledge who used that knowledge to teach. There's no difference here, except your lack the willingness. Were you "spoon feed" because you read a book on electronics written by someone more knowledgeable than yourself? Are your college professors or high school teachers "spoon feeding" you by using their knowledge and the knowledge contained in text books to teach you? So how are you "spoon feeding" someone by using your knowledge and experience to teach someone else less knowledgeable than yourself?

Image how the world would be if as knowledge was accumulated, it was not shared or taught because it would be "Spoon feeding" if the person wasn't capable of figuring it out on their own.

I've found the grand unified theory. But I'm not going to tell anyone, because I wouldn't want to spoon-feed them their knowledge. They need to figure it out on their own.

I agree completely.

Perhaps a new term needs to be invented, rather than "spoon feeding." It has to do with laziness, for sure. And it should encompass the attitude of the interested, but argumentative party. "I want to learn, but if I can't do it the way I think should be done, then there's something wrong."

Sometimes people just need to be content with with SOMETHING they've received, rather than the whole thing. If a parent tells their child a few clues and that they have much to learn, they've given them something. **** off with a child revolting because they didn't get what they expected. Get real, people.

 

[squeak9798 5,000+ posts]

"Hi, I'm Squeak the mod.

What does me being a mod have anything to do with the discussion ??

Seems like your grasping at straws to bring on personal attacks.

Hey, but at least you're actually engaged in a discussion for once!

I can drop my comments into any thread I want and rest comfortably.

Explain. How so? You don't think people have ever questioned me?

Or is this somehow related to my "mod status" again?

I see something that doesn't fit, leave.

I doubt you'll find a thread where I left a conversation for any reason that wasn't related to 1) the issue going round and round in circles, or 2) time restraints [yes, despite my post count there have been times where I wasn't available to respond, and by the time I was the discussion had been forgetten].

More comments I don't like...drop my own bla bla bla...maybe a //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/rolleyes.gif.c1fef805e9d1464d377451cd5bc18bfb.gif or two, and that's it."

//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/rolleyes.gif.c1fef805e9d1464d377451cd5bc18bfb.gif

I think you have me confused with some other members of the moderation staff.

Unlike others participating in this thread ( //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif ), I have no problem fully discussing my viewpoints or statements (up until the point the conversation becomes circular, such as this is becoming).

Keep trying to maintain order in a sea of chaos, man. You'll get a CA.COM mod award one day, I'm sure. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif

Again, grasping at straws to bring on a personal attack.

Shows me just how strong your side of the discussion is.

 

[Fast1one 10+ year member]

You missed the entire point of my post, read it again, slowly if you have to. Do you EXPECT people to teach you everything about the world? Or do you do your own research in an attempt to discover truth? I would imagine the logical choice would be to attempt to understand on your own FIRST. Then seek help if needed...

Your college comparison is futile. You are comparing apples to oranges. Or should I say, an apple seed to an orange tree. I can't teach myself how to be a mechanical engineer on my own. My course work is essential to my survival in the real world. No amount of independant research can match that experience.

I expected you, of all people, to have the courtesy and ability to maintain a civil, intelligent discussion...guess I was wrong. Your posts are just full of rants, with your viewpoint always being precedent over all. Perks of being an elitist mod I guess, your posts don't seem to correlate with other posts outside of CA.com...

There is a HUGE difference between "spoon-feeding" and using your knowledge to teach and explain.
Honestly, stop and think about what you said.

All of those things you've ever read and learned from, were written by someone with knowledge who used that knowledge to teach. There's no difference here, except your lack of willingness. Were you "spoon fed" because you read a book on electronics written by someone more knowledgeable than yourself? Are your college professors or high school teachers "spoon feeding" you by using their knowledge and the knowledge contained in text books to teach you? So how are you "spoon feeding" someone by using your knowledge and experience to teach someone else less knowledgeable than yourself?

Image how the world would be if as knowledge was accumulated, it was not shared or taught because it would be "Spoon feeding" if the person wasn't capable of figuring it out on their own.

I've found the grand unified theory. But I'm not going to tell anyone, because I wouldn't want to spoon-feed them their knowledge. They need to figure it out on their own.

 

[squeak9798 5,000+ posts]

You're changing the nature of our discussion now, or just ranting again?? //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/rolleyes.gif.c1fef805e9d1464d377451cd5bc18bfb.gif
How about this; no one cares what you think??? Not trying to be a dick, just sayin. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

You care enough to continue commenting on and responding to my posts //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif

Apparently you're breaking your cardinal rule here, by continuing to contribute to a discussion.

 

[squeak9798 5,000+ posts]

Do you EXPECT people to teach you everything about the world?

You must be one of those rare brillant minds who have discovered everything they know by experimentation....never being taught anything.

Oh, wait.....

Or do you do your own research in an attempt to discover truth?

//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/fyi.gif.9f1f679348da7204ce960cfc74bca8e0.gif Anything you've ever read or heard about, was taught to you by someone. You didn't learn anything on your own unless you devised experimentation to test and understand that which you discovered.

I would imagine the logical choice would be to attempt to understand on your own FIRST.

See above. You learned because someone else took the time to create an explanation to pass on their knowledge. Same here, only you're too lazy.

I can't teach myself how to be a mechanical engineer on my own.

Sure you could.

You're just lazy and expect to be spoon-fed the information.

All of the information is out there. But no, you expect that your college professors spoon feed you the information.

No amount of independant research can match that experience.

Sure it could, but you're a lazy spoon-feeder.

Perks of being an elitist mod I guess, your posts don't seem to correlate with other posts outside of CA.com...

Again with this moderator bullshit //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/rolleyes.gif.c1fef805e9d1464d377451cd5bc18bfb.gif

Seriously, show me where I've used a single one of my "mod powers" to gain an upperhand in ANY discussion I've EVER participated in on this board.

 

[FoxPro5 5,000+ posts]

Again, grasping at straws to bring on a personal attack.

Shows me just how strong your side of the discussion is.

By the comment you made on Fast1one earlier, you perpetuate the crap that ca.com is famous for. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif

Personal attack or not, it's true whether you like to admit it or not. Your attitude on this forum is simply not needed in some respects. Since you are a mod, my belief is that you can get away with it more than others. That is all.

Outside of this, I generally agree with what you have to say and appreciate your input. I think we both can agree that neither of us are perfect and going round and round has little value.

Now back to car stereo.......... //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/biggrin.gif.d71a5d36fcbab170f2364c9f2e3946cb.gif

 

[Immacomputer 10+ year member]

I ask you to explain your own words, and you link me to a 37 page thread on ECA. Im a member of ECA, if I wanted to read a random 37 page thread there, I would. You say you aren't the search engine, why should I have to search to find the explanation to your claim?

Haven't you said the same thing to people when they ask you for examples of why eD blows *** as a company? Sounds kind of hypocritical that you want them to spell it out but you never feel like digging up stuff for other people when you claim eD blows *** (regardless of the fact that it's true).

The whole stereo in the car thing being an illusion or not is a pretty stupid thing to worry about. It doesn't matter whether it's real or not as the trip is what you make of it.

It's the same thing as a placebo effect; if you're happy with believing something is true, why not just leave the issue alone and enjoy yourself if the fact on the matter can make no difference on the situation? Your mind interprets its reality based on the stimulants it gets from the environment. Why not just let your mind create the illusion of a nice stereo image in car whether or not it is a well separated stereophonic environment? I have experienced things that made me believe certain things are true that I knew were not. Why try to fight my knowledge instead of just enjoying my experience (in this case music)?

 

[Fast1one 10+ year member]

By the comment you made on Fast1one earlier, you perpetuate the crap that ca.com is famous for. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif
Personal attack or not, it's true whether you like to admit it or not. Your attitude on this forum is simply not needed in some respects. Since you are a mod, my belief is that you can get away with it more than others. That is all.

Outside of this, I generally agree with what you have to say and appreciate your input. I think we both can agree that neither of us are perfect and going round and round has little value.

Now back to car stereo.......... //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/biggrin.gif.d71a5d36fcbab170f2364c9f2e3946cb.gif

Agreed....
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Maybe instead of viewing everything in black and white, one should take every comment as a grain of salt, instead of trying to establish ones superiority //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/rolleyes.gif.c1fef805e9d1464d377451cd5bc18bfb.gif

I put forth my viewpoint, never once said or hinted that squeak's was wrong, its just another viewpoint (yet he was so determined to prove me WRONG). That was an assumption. If I did portray an elitist point of view, than I apologize sincerely...

On that note, I no longer wish to be involved a discussion (Note: pissing contest) that will just cycle in loops.

Cheers!

 

[audioholic 5,000+ posts]

Haven't you said the same thing to people when they ask you for examples of why eD blows *** as a company? Sounds kind of hypocritical that you want them to spell it out but you never feel like digging up stuff for other people when you claim eD blows *** (regardless of the fact that it's true).

Quite the contrary, Ive offered to show proof of my 'claims' about eD plenty of times.
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Lets get a little perspective here. Foxpro did not open up the door for us to walk thru, he said "If you think you can properly reproduce stereo in a car, you're cracked. The best you can hope for is a really good illusion."

Where in that statement is there anything useful to research? The word stereo? If you are suggesting that is a good stepping stone towards researching the subject, Id like to see you go google "stereo+car+illusion" and see what turns up.

Foxpro, stop being argumentative, Squeak is on the money. You posted a one liner not intended to teach, and when asked to expand on it, you preach its not your responsibility. Here's an idea. if you have more important things to be doing than type in this thread, dont post in the thread to begin with.

If you have all this time to type out long winded replies why you shouldn't have to explain your own statements, why do you not have the time to just explain what you mean? //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/eyebrow.gif.fe2c18d8720fe8c7eaed347b21ea05a5.gif

You seem to think you are entitled to something. My feeling is that should be happy with with what you got. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif

You are pretty full of yourself, aren't you?
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Fast1one.... now this thread is bickering. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif