On that note, I don't understand why you are bickering. Like he mentioned, he is NOT a search engine. I don't see any reason why he should have to prove anything to you, and neither do I //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif Go do some reading if you are really interested in other options...
If you are aiming the bickering comment at me, well that's your prerogative. Maybe its just me, but when I say something, I feel a responsibility to explain it, if necessary. I do not find me asking him to do so as bickering. If anything, your choice of words would tend to escalate what is, imo, an otherwise reasonable discussion on the topic.
Not trying to fight either. Good! //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif
My appeal to authority with the ECA link must've failed.
My claim was that rear fill will not help when proper stereophonic reproduction is hard enough, let alone in the space of an automobile, of all things.
I gave a few examples for you or anyone to think about. To say, "no you're wrong" would require me to be an expert on the subject, which I am not. I'm not in to position to prove you wrong, only to get you to think.
Ok, fine. Here's more:
What's more important to stereo, the room or the speakers??
http://www.linkwitzlab.com/stereo%20reproduction.htm
Because you took the bait, became interested and now it's your responsibility, not mine. There's a learning curve here, relax.
Thankyou for the more detailed explanation. If I may further this discussion...
"First of all I must emphasize that playback of a recording over two loudspeakers can only create an auditory illusion of the original event. Two channel playback produces loudspeaker cross-talk signals at the ears. The left speaker signal reaches left and right ears. Similarly for the right speaker."
That being said, how does this apply to car audio only? This certainly implies ANY stereo playback of a 3 dimensional event using loudspeakers (non-headphone setup) can only create the illusion of space and positioning. That leaves me wondering why this was interjected into a discussion on rear-fill. If anything, that seems to imply that heck, if we are only making an illusion anyway, why not toss in rear speakers if you think it makes it sound more realistic (personal preference).
And maybe Im just being slow today, but even if you were at the 'event' live, listening to the band play in front of you while they record, wouldn't information from your left also reach your right ear, and information from your right also reach your left ear, creating 'cross talk'?
If anything, this is probably the passage I would have highlighted if I had been you here...
"In addition there is a multitude of reflected sounds coming from the room surfaces."
This certainly seems to be a larger factor in car audio than home audio or PA. More reflective surfaces, in closer proximity.
In summary, putting this information in context with this discussion, 'rear fill' in car audio, how does it fit? You said originally "If you think you can properly reproduce stereo in a car, you're cracked. The best you can hope for is a really good illusion." The info you provide implies nothing but headphones will give true stereo.
Because you took the bait, became interested and now it's your responsibility, not mine. There's a learning curve here, relax.
LOL Come on man, its not like you even provided any real info to research, you just said if we think we can reproduce stereo in a car we are crazy. You were being vague, someone asked you to explain what you mean, you get all "Im no search engine" about it. I do appreciate you providing info here, but the flip-side is popping into a thread to provide a one-liner with no explanation really isn't helping anyone learn.
