New Type X blown? PLEASE help! im so stressed... $%&^#

[NDMstang65 10+ year member]

Because *I* know its blown, and i've not even seen it.

no you dont

i've tapped a many of coils on backplates and not killed subs....

depending on the type of former (if its kapton it will take 6-8 hits before it breaks the wire on the coil off and shorts)

To the original poster:

It might have broken a spider landing loose or the triple joint loose around the edge of the former...

Best bet i would say to do is pop the sub out, get a DVOM and check the resistance on the coils. Then look for any physical damage if the coils checks out fine. (if its a dual 2ohm nominal coil, then anywhere from 1.6-2.2 is acceptable)...

Look around where the cone connects to the coil former and see if that joint is broken, or if the spiders have broken off of the spider landing on the basket.

 

[NDMstang65 10+ year member]

http://www.caraudioforum.com/vbb3/showpost.php?p=755599&postcount=66

Clipping doesnt blow speakers btw.

 

[brandontw 10+ year member]

no you dont
i've tapped a many of coils on backplates and not killed subs....

depending on the type of former (if its kapton it will take 6-8 hits before it breaks the wire on the coil off and shorts)

To the original poster:

It might have broken a spider landing loose or the triple joint loose around the edge of the former...

Best bet i would say to do is pop the sub out, get a DVOM and check the resistance on the coils. Then look for any physical damage if the coils checks out fine. (if its a dual 2ohm nominal coil, then anywhere from 1.6-2.2 is acceptable)...

Look around where the cone connects to the coil former and see if that joint is broken, or if the spiders have broken off of the spider landing on the basket.

thank you for the informed, helpfull reply, i will check it out.

 

[NDMstang65 10+ year member]

no prob man, if ya need help just hit me up on aim or shoot me a pm

 

[brandontw 10+ year member]

Ok, so this thing is fried good. Both coils have .004 ohms resistance.. and it smells.

The question is why? Why did this blow? It seems like a 500 dollar subwoofer would do a little better than this. Could it have been blown when i got it, then i have been running it blown, and didnt notice until i turned it up?

What should i do? I might email alpine but im sure they wont be too sympathetic. Im still trying to get ahold of helomota, the guy that sold it to me...i havent heard from him yet.

 

[Twistid 5,000+ posts]

hope it works out for ya

 

[NDMstang65 10+ year member]

Ok, so this thing is fried good. Both coils have .004 ohms resistance.. and it smells.
The question is why? Why did this blow? It seems like a 500 dollar subwoofer would do a little better than this. Could it have been blown when i got it, then i have been running it blown, and didnt notice until i turned it up?

What should i do? I might email alpine but im sure they wont be too sympathetic. Im still trying to get ahold of helomota, the guy that sold it to me...i havent heard from him yet.

it wouldn't have ever worked if it was blown in the first place....

odds are that you probably blew it yourself, when the sub stops getting louder with increased power your running into compression...

no additional output....and a shit load of excess heat which results in burnt coils

 

[audioholic 5,000+ posts]

http://www.caraudioforum.com/vbb3/showpost.php?p=755599&postcount=66
Clipping doesnt blow speakers btw.

I have to disagree with that. A clipped signal most defiitely causes additional heat build up over a non-clipped signal. A squared wave means the speaker will be sitting motionless for a portion of each cycle, while the current is still flowing into and through the speaker's motor structure. Loss of motion + continuation of current flow = excess heat build up. This is because the speaker actually uses its own motion as a major form of cooling. It literally pumps air into and through the motor. When it stops, so does cooling (other than radiant cooling).

In summary, a clipped (squared) signal most definitely contributes to additional heat build-up within a speaker, and ultimately can/will lead to failure.

 

[NDMstang65 10+ year member]

I have to disagree with that. A clipped signal most defiitely causes additional heat build up over a non-clipped signal. A squared wave means the speaker will be sitting motionless for a portion of each cycle, while the current is still flowing into and through the speaker's motor structure. Loss of motion + continuation of current flow = excess heat build up. This is because the speaker actually uses its own motion as a major form of cooling. It literally pumps air into and through the motor. When it stops, so does cooling (other than radiant cooling).
In summary, a clipped (squared) signal most definitely contributes to additional heat build-up within a speaker, and ultimately can/will lead to failure.

No, a squared wave it is NOT setting motionless, it might look like it. but it's not. It's STILL AC voltage wheather it's squared or not.

DC voltage on the other hand, with opposing polarity's will fry a coil in a heartbeat.

1 watt of square wave = big deal

100,000 watts of square wave = fried coil

100,000 watts of clean signal = fried coil

It's not the waveform that we're concerned with here, it's the fact that clipping the amp can increase the power output 10 fold.

Email RC about it if you have questions

 

[audioholic 5,000+ posts]

No, a squared wave it is NOT setting motionless, it might look like it. but it's not. It's STILL AC voltage wheather it's squared or not.
DC voltage on the other hand, with opposing polarity's will fry a coil in a heartbeat.

1 watt of square wave = big deal

100,000 watts of square wave = fried coil

100,000 watts of clean signal = fried coil

It's not the waveform that we're concerned with here, it's the fact that clipping the amp can increase the power output 10 fold.

Email RC about it if you have questions

Sorry, again I have to disagree. When you send a speaker a squared wave, for the portion of the cycle the wave is flat (squared), the cone literally stops moving. Its held in place until the portion of the wave that starts returning to neutral. This compounds the issue of increased output when clipped that you are mentioning (I usually hear it referred to as double the output, not 10X, but that's not the point). Clipping the amp hurts the speaker two fold: increased power output, likely surpassing the speaker's rated thermal limits, and the squared signal rendering the cone motionless for portions of each cycle. The greater you clip the signal, the more squared the waves become, the more 'flat' portion there is to each wave, and thus the speaker stays at rest more. Its a viscious cycle that can burn up coils very fast.

 

[NDMstang65 10+ year member]

It's not dieing because of clipping

It's dieing because of increased power and heat, speakers are dumb, they move according to the voltage that they are suppolied.

1 watt of clipped power = not blown

10 watts of clipped power = not blown

100 watts of clipped power = 200 watts of 'clean' power = blown tweeter.

 

[mega1268 10+ year member]

Ive heard alot of people With non blown coils have problems like that thou. there was a guy i think it was viveet that had a sub that made terrible noises at low volumes but as volume went up it sound fine. I know this is the opposite but it may not be the coils. And yea it could of had partially fried coils before he got it. but he did say it looked new so it wouldl of been hard to hook up and not leave any trace of it being hooked up before inless it was being run free air lol.

 

[flakko 5,000+ posts]

Ok, so this thing is fried good. Both coils have .004 ohms resistance.. and it smells.
The question is why? Why did this blow? It seems like a 500 dollar subwoofer would do a little better than this. Could it have been blown when i got it, then i have been running it blown, and didnt notice until i turned it up?

What should i do? I might email alpine but im sure they wont be too sympathetic. Im still trying to get ahold of helomota, the guy that sold it to me...i havent heard from him yet.

haha its just like an ifinity perfect VQ. Awesome subs and effiecient as heck, but go alittle oveer thier rated power, and BAM they blow.

 

[406er 10+ year member]

well i dont think you should turned the gain on the amp past 1/3 to begin with. if the pic of the alpine deck in your sig is what your using, its has 4 volt pre-outs wich is gettin up there for pre out voltage, tuning up the gain past 1/3 probably was sending to much power to the sub. and that why ya blew it. also if u add in some bass boost you for sure fried the coils.

 

[audioholic 5,000+ posts]

It's not dieing because of clipping
It's dieing because of increased power and heat, speakers are dumb, they move according to the voltage that they are suppolied.

1 watt of clipped power = not blown

10 watts of clipped power = not blown

100 watts of clipped power = 200 watts of 'clean' power = blown tweeter.

Yes, speakers are dumb. They move according to the frequency, amplitude and shape of the signal wave. Therefore, when a signal wave has been squared off, it will have a loss of motion within the cycle. Very basic stuff here.
Again, as Ive stated before, "clipping" an amplifier causes two major problems: output well beyond rated power (2X, 10X, whatever) and the loss of cone motion throughout each cycle. Both of which lead to thermal issues. You even suggest this phenomenon is occuring when you say "100 watts of clipped power = 200 watts of 'clean' power". The reason clipped watts equal more 'clean' watts is due to the loss of cone motion, which leads to the heat issues I discussed earlier in the thread. Otherwise, a watt would equal a watt, clipped or otherwise.