midbass location

[stuckinok 5,000+ posts]

Your so full of Crap! The last place you want a Midbass or Sub is in front of you Retard:laugh: Whens the last time you seen a 12in+ sub up front?
When setup right the Front stage, Mids and subs should sound like its around you, Not coming right at you.//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/laugh.gif.48439b2acf2cfca21620f01e7f77d1e4.gif

dumbass so what your sayin is that you should only have tweeters in front of you then put all the mids and everything else behind you? your a ***----have you ever heard of kick pannels? or those people just wrong too

 

[kmu 10+ year member]

I have a 12" sub in a sealed center console box right in between my front 2 seats of a quad cab truck, so the sub is right in my front stage...

Would I help if I get some strong dedicated midbass in the doors and put the comps in kickpanels or would the 12" sub in front defeat the purpose of the midbass speakers?

 

[headless 10+ year member]

this thread brings the LOL. Quotarific.

 

[Hebrew Hammer 10+ year member]

Your so full of Crap! The last place you want a Midbass or Sub is in front of you Retard:laugh: Whens the last time you seen a 12in+ sub up front?
When setup right the Front stage, Mids and subs should sound like its around you, Not coming right at you.//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/laugh.gif.48439b2acf2cfca21620f01e7f77d1e4.gif

so earl got your tounge?

 

[xtremekustomz 10+ year member]

I have a 12" sub in a sealed center console box right in between my front 2 seats of a quad cab truck, so the sub is right in my front stage...
Would I help if I get some strong dedicated midbass in the doors and put the comps in kickpanels or would the 12" sub in front defeat the purpose of the midbass speakers?

ok so maybe I'm not through LOL A good 6 1/2" set will work good if your sub is up front. Kick panel mounting the midrange will give good results because in most cases your path lengths are shortest in that area. Also I don't know how much you are really into true sound but you could put the midbass in the floor since the kick panel area will be taken up. Or you could use the doors but the floor would be better. Either way it will work just run them around 160hz or a little lower if your midrange can play safely down that low.

 

[grouchy 10+ year member]

Ok, thanks for all comments. I like the idea of all or most of the sound coming from the dash area...sort of like that old 50's or 60's car feeling of enjoying music coming from the dash, but much better quality. I think once it's all done I'll be happy and not feel the need to tweak or change anything else around....set it and forget it! Only other thing I plan to do is get some plastic laminate on the inside of the windows which might help block outside noise and inside sound reflections, plus make it more difficult for anyone to break into the car thru the windows.

 

[T3mpest 10+ year member]

so earl got your tounge?

Down boy! He's been mentally pwned enough for a while. Not your fault though, he asked for it. Adda boy hammer, dropping knowledge!

 

[Team Hammer 10+ year member]

first off...I'd go play in traffic for spouting at the mouth..do you have any idea who you are talking to?.....I think I know at thing or two about car audio bro...and all you look like is a d@mn idiot....
Do you have any idea what a defined center image soundslike?

THE BOTTOM LINE IS.....YOU WANT TO HAVE THE CLOSEST TO A LIVE PERFORMANCE AS POSSIBLE....THIS MEANS IF POSSIBLE TO HAVE EVERY DRIVER INFRONT OF YOU!!!!

Things like minimizing PLD's....eliminating tactile energy transfer...are all things every serious SQ'er should address....

yes all the great cars have upfront subs...garry's regal...scott's new and old 240, steve head's civic,jason syner's civic,natans boutanno "spelling" echo, earl zalsmer's bmw which 1st had a pair of 12's then went to 15's in the kicks....

would you like so school me some more retard?

so that pic in my sig...that round thing is a sub.....

First off I'm not speaking to you, I am writing. If you can hear my voice on this board, Start a school for the clairvoyant!

As for knowing who you are I could care less. The fact you think you know more then the engineers or acustic design of ever car made shows that. The fact is that putting all the speakers in front of you defeats speaker radiation angles changes from crossover phaseshift. The cancellation axis and peaking axis are fighting each other for the same space "Your Listening postion".

If you ever setup a live performance, You would know that not all speakers are not "In Front" of you. Go to any concert hall and you would notice speakers located behind and beside you. You would also notice that the construction of the building is designed to carry that sound without cancellation at any given area.

Since in a Car or Truck your fighting Glass, Seats, Fabric, Carpet Etc.., You have to make your own spartial surround field with what you have. A specific built Car for sound is not a "Everyday Driver" is not what were talking about. You should make that clear when giving advise to someone.

Sure I could build a Car for SQ contest only, Then park it till the next one. Mount all the speakers up front and in the ceiling. Of course you have to build the car around the system at a cost of 100K to fit it!

I deal with everyday drivers and limited space. Sure I could pull the dash out and Glass out a new one to fit ever speaker up front. I quess everybody has 15k+ for that install!//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/eek.gif.771b7a90cf45cabdc554ff1121c21c4a.gif

 

[Hebrew Hammer 10+ year member]

First off I'm not speaking to you, I am writing. If you can hear my voice on this board, Start a school for the clairvoyant!
As for knowing who you are I could care less. The fact you think you know more then the engineers or acustic design of ever car made shows that. The fact is that putting all the speakers in front of you defeats speaker radiation angles changes from crossover phaseshift. The cancellation axis and peaking axis are fighting each other for the same space "Your Listening postion".

If you ever setup a live performance, You would know that not all speakers are not "In Front" of you. Go to any concert hall and you would notice speakers located behind and beside you. You would also notice that the construction of the building is designed to carry that sound without cancellation at any given area.

Since in a Car or Truck your fighting Glass, Seats, Fabric, Carpet Etc.., You have to make your own spartial surround field with what you have. A specific built Car for sound is not a "Everyday Driver" is not what were talking about. You should make that clear when giving advise to someone.

Sure I could build a Car for SQ contest only, Then park it till the next one. Mount all the speakers up front and in the ceiling. Of course you have to build the car around the system at a cost of 100K to fit it!

I deal with everyday drivers and limited space. Sure I could pull the dash out and Glass out a new one to fit ever speaker up front. I quess everybody has 15k+ for that install!//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/eek.gif.771b7a90cf45cabdc554ff1121c21c4a.gif

do you honestly think the reason why live performances have speakers all around is because it's correct? or because they want every listener to be able to hear the music?...come on man...I drive my car every day...I have built so many sq and show cars in my past years..and guess what..most all were daily drivers...heaven forbid you have to put thought into an install to make it correct along with making it functional....

and your issues with radiation pateterns are nul and void NEARFIELD in a car bottom line....and the plain and simple fact that your not in the sweetspot...

so answer me this smart guy...

you have lets say a 3way....you are telling me...that having multiple drivers with different axis points to the listener..all at different phasing..which is a factor of TIME playing frequency which is also a factor of TIME..and placing these just anywere and try to get these time aligned to achieve a focused center location with all the assocciated problems of a car's interior"glass-dash-hard surfaces-etc" is possible?

 

[Team Hammer 10+ year member]

You made my point. Trying to postion all the speakers to fit your listening postion in a car is impossible. Thats why HU's and EQs have these functions. You could bulid a car seat with all your speakers wrapped around your ears but we don't do that yet. Getting all the sound to reach your ears in phase "Timed" at once is impossible. Even with all the processing HU's or EQ's with sonic images being made from the stereo signal you get that center sound field where there is no speaker to start with.

Concert halls still stage speakers Front, Center, Rear and even Above, And they don't have to deal with road noise, Small cabin space etc.

If your installing "Midbass" Drivers in a threeway system which they should be if your installing them. You set your LP at 120hz or less you just removed 2/3's of there design function. They will have there own amp cause you can not add them to your Sub amp, The Xmax is to small.

Tie them to the front stage amp "Mid & Tweeters" and they sound like crap, Cause they can not play above 400hz. They are designed to play in the Bandpass response range of 100hz~400hz. If you doubt me call any quality speaker company that makes them. When setup correct you should not know where they are located. If you can the Despersion level "Timing" are setup wrong. Midbass drivers have a highier despersion level so they are less effected by location.

Now for the real fun. The installing of DVD players is making installers unlearn all these locations cause now we have to bring 5.1+ to the auto. You will now have to deal with surround sound fields.

 

[Hebrew Hammer 10+ year member]

You made my point. Trying to postion all the speakers to fit your listening postion in a car is impossible. Thats why HU's and EQs have these functions. You could bulid a car seat with all your speakers wrapped around your ears but we don't do that yet. Getting all the sound to reach your ears in phase "Timed" at once is impossible. Even with all the processing HU's or EQ's with sonic images being made from the stereo signal you get that center sound field where there is no speaker to start with.
Concert halls still stage speakers Front, Center, Rear and even Above, And they don't have to deal with road noise, Small cabin space etc.

If your installing "Midbass" Drivers in a threeway system which they should be if your installing them. You set your LP at 120hz or less you just removed 2/3's of there design function. They will have there own amp cause you can not add them to your Sub amp, The Xmax is to small.

Tie them to the front stage amp "Mid & Tweeters" and they sound like crap, Cause they can not play above 400hz. They are designed to play in the Bandpass response range of 100hz~400hz. If you doubt me call any quality speaker company that makes them. When setup correct you should not know where they are located. If you can the Despersion level "Timing" are setup wrong. Midbass drivers have a highier despersion level so they are less effected by location.

Now for the real fun. The installing of DVD players is making installers unlearn all these locations cause now we have to bring 5.1+ to the auto. You will now have to deal with surround sound fields.

how did I make your point...my point is as follows....T/A is a bandaid for poor and improper placement...and even then tonally never truly sounds right if you have to use it in access...so....the RIGHT WAY is minimize axis points and or point sources all together..and if possible the same verticle plain...not just place were ever and fix with T/A..all the best cars period were those who did exaclty what I explained above...all other cars that didn't do what I said were average...and just like the other thousands of cars that just did whatever prior to them...

now...are you claiming that midbass drivers should only play 400-100?...you do realize that 250hz+ is still playing lower male vocals...and are indeed directional...which means....hey...a broken record here....does effect you while trying to define a focused center image...

 

[xtremekustomz 10+ year member]

I love this post. BTW, HebrewHammer, you have a pm

 

[jmanpc 5,000+ posts]

um...

ost:

I love my midbass in my doors. I'm fine with my average sound.

 

[Hebrew Hammer 10+ year member]

um...
ost:

I love my midbass in my doors. I'm fine with my average sound.

comment was not to bash those with door mounted drivers etc...it is to educate those who claim and think that placing drivers anywere is ok...for those who truely want to go the extra mile etc.....

 

[Hebrew Hammer 10+ year member]

I love this post. BTW, HebrewHammer, you have a pm

you got PM back //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/biggrin.gif.d71a5d36fcbab170f2364c9f2e3946cb.gif