midbass location

[grouchy 10+ year member]

Hi. I have midbass in doors right now as do most people but was thinking of somehow getting them in the front aiming back towards me rather than firing across at each other down below my knees. To me, it seems it would be better to have the midbass in front firing back. Does anyone know if it's worthwhile to get the midbass up in front? Thankx

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[T3mpest 10+ year member]

your midbass is already in front of you already, right? It's in your front doors? If so it depends. If you midbass is a dedicated midbass, part of a 3 way set, you will gain nothing by pointing them towards you. If they are part of a 2 way, then yes, aiming them will make a difference. In either case your goal should be 3 fold

1. Get the pathlengths from each speaker to you to be equal (close as you can)

2. Get the speakers as far to the left and right as you can

3. Get the speakers as far away from you as possible.

 

[grouchy 10+ year member]

your midbass is already in front of you already, right? It's in your front doors? If so it depends. If you midbass is a dedicated midbass, part of a 3 way set, you will gain nothing by pointing them towards you. If they are part of a 2 way, then yes, aiming them will make a difference. In either case your goal should be 3 fold
1. Get the pathlengths from each speaker to you to be equal (close as you can)

2. Get the speakers as far to the left and right as you can

3. Get the speakers as far away from you as possible.

Thanks for input! Yes they are in front of me below my knees, & part of a 3 way set but are lower tones all undefined? Not sure as I haven't heard only the midbass playing.

It just seems to make sense to have the most direct path from the speakers to the ears with the least obstructions. Down low in the doors the midbass sounds have to hit the legs and I guess bounce around a bit before they get to my ears, right? ...so wouldn't I lose a bit of clarity or punch?

Do most others here agree with T3mpest? I am very interested in this right now as I'm having an installer move the tweeters and uppermids and am wondering if it's worth it to have him move the midbass at the same time.

 

[jmanpc 5,000+ posts]

They ought to be fine where they are. However, try deadening your doors. I've got midbasses that are begging me to seal my doors up. I have some secondskin on the way for them.

 

[grouchy 10+ year member]

They ought to be fine where they are. However, try deadening your doors. I've got midbasses that are begging me to seal my doors up. I have some secondskin on the way for them.

The car is already sound dampened. It's not that it doesn't already sound ok but was wondering if midbass upfront pointed toward the listener's head might be better than down below the listener pointed at the legs. I searched around the internet and haven't found any discussion on this. I guess everyone just puts them in the doors and assumes that's where they should go. Maybe they do sound just as good in the doors, but I can't find any discussion about where people have tried different locations to compare. Thanks.

 

[T3mpest 10+ year member]

midbass, as long as it's playing below 400hz or so, will have an identical off axis vs on axis response. Physically aiming the speaker towards or away you will make little to no difference, unless we are talking like wayy off axis, like 90 degrees. The wavelengths are quite long at 400hz and below. Your ears physically can't discern how where a sound is coming from, in terms of height, until about 2k. Even then you can easily fool your ears. So no, aiming your midbass wont' do you much good. You may gain a bit of impact, but it's hardly worth the effort.

In terms of best locations, doors are NOT an ideal location for a midbass. Remember the rules I posted earlier, door locations fail pretty badly when it comes to getting pathlenghts equal, as well as overall distance on your drivers side being quite close. For most cars, the best place for midbasses would be in the kickpanel region, not due to the on-axis responce, but due to the other parameters I mentioned last post. Most floor locations will end up being better than the doors for this reason. The only issue with it is that most kickpanels don't have enough room to give the midbass proper space. Your forced to choose between imaging and tonality. Overall, I'd take tonality, as would alot of people, especially for a daily driver.

ps.doesnt' matter if they agree if I'm right //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif

 

[helotaxi 5,000+ posts]

You won't find dedicated midbasses much of anywhere other than the doors for the simple reason that the door is the only place in the front of the car that offers enough airspace for them to work properly without a lot of custom work.

 

[grouchy 10+ year member]

midbass, as long as it's playing below 400hz or so, will have an identical off axis vs on axis response. Physically aiming the speaker towards or away you will make little to no difference, unless we are talking like wayy off axis, like 90 degrees. The wavelengths are quite long at 400hz and below. Your ears physically can't discern how where a sound is coming from, in terms of height, until about 2k. Even then you can easily fool your ears. So no, aiming your midbass wont' do you much good. You may gain a bit of impact, but it's hardly worth the effort.
In terms of best locations, doors are NOT an ideal location for a midbass. Remember the rules I posted earlier, door locations fail pretty badly when it comes to getting pathlenghts equal, as well as overall distance on your drivers side being quite close. For most cars, the best place for midbasses would be in the kickpanel region, not due to the on-axis responce, but due to the other parameters I mentioned last post. Most floor locations will end up being better than the doors for this reason. The only issue with it is that most kickpanels don't have enough room to give the midbass proper space. Your forced to choose between imaging and tonality. Overall, I'd take tonality, as would alot of people, especially for a daily driver.

ps.doesnt' matter if they agree if I'm right //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif

Ok, that's good information, thanks for the help! I'll take another look at the car tomorrow to see if there's room to have an enclosure built for them by the kickpanels.

 

[grouchy 10+ year member]

You won't find dedicated midbasses much of anywhere other than the doors for the simple reason that the door is the only place in the front of the car that offers enough airspace for them to work properly without a lot of custom work.

Ok, thanks for the info.

 

[grouchy 10+ year member]

After thinking it over I decided to ask the installer to put a set of midbass in the dash and also leave the midbass in the doors. The installer can put a switch in for me so I can switch between the midbass speakers so I will then know for sure if I prefer the midbass upfront with the tweeters and upper midrange. Yes I know it will be a waste of money if it turns out I can't tell the difference

when I flip the switch but I will finally know for sure plus I like the idea of having all the sound coming at me from the dash area. Will let you know how it goes, will probably be done in a few weeks. Hopefully I won't end up prefering the door location. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

 

[grouchy 10+ year member]

Changed my mind. Thought I'd put 9" midbass in the dash but think I'll go with the 6" so I'll just have the 6" taken out of my doors and put in the dash which means I won't have a switch to compare the difference but will save me money plus the 6" most likely could be angled better than the 9". Also I'm thinking with the midbass in the dash, perhaps it can play notes up to about 600 now, since it's in a better location. So if the upper midrange doesn't have to go down below about 600 then perhaps the notes it does play might sound a bit better?

 

[T3mpest 10+ year member]

Changed my mind. Thought I'd put 9" midbass in the dash but think I'll go with the 6" so I'll just have the 6" taken out of my doors and put in the dash which means I won't have a switch to compare the difference but will save me money plus the 6" most likely could be angled better than the 9". Also I'm thinking with the midbass in the dash, perhaps it can play notes up to about 600 now, since it's in a better location. So if the upper midrange doesn't have to go down below about 600 then perhaps the notes it does play might sound a bit better?

What did we decide the important things to worry about were?

Maximizing the distances, but minimizing the difference between each mid. In a 3 way install, here's what I'd do.

1.Biggest midbass you can fit within your lower door panel (proper airspace in doors, and you can T/A for a 1 seater.)

2.Midranges in kickpanels (PLD's are VERY imporant here, as well as on axis responce)

For the tweets it depends, if this is a passive set, put the tweet in the kicks. If it's active, go for the a-pillars.

 

[grouchy 10+ year member]

What did we decide the important things to worry about were?Maximizing the distances, but minimizing the difference between each mid. In a 3 way install, here's what I'd do.

1.Biggest midbass you can fit within your lower door panel (proper airspace in doors, and you can T/A for a 1 seater.)

2.Midranges in kickpanels (PLD's are VERY imporant here, as well as on axis responce)

For the tweets it depends, if this is a passive set, put the tweet in the kicks. If it's active, go for the a-pillars.

Thanks T3mpest! I wanted to get other ideas and opinions before I decided which way to go, and you did help me with that.

One reason I went with the midbass in the dash is because if the tweeters, midrange, and midbass speakers are all close together then maybe it gives me more flexibility in setting the crossovers for best sound. If I kept the midbass down low away from the other speakers then I would be more limited in how high I should set the crossover point for the midbass. If the midbass can play sounds accurately up to about 600 or maybe even higher, it seems a waste to put it in a location that can't use that potential. With the midbass next to the midrange, playing up to 600 or higher, I wouldn't need to have the midrange play down that low, so maybe then the midrange wouldn't have to handle such a wide bandwidth so maybe the sounds it does play might sound a bit better? Plus I guess there's the psychoacoustic thing, if that's the right word, where I think it sounds better if I can see all the speakers up on the dash pointing in my direction with no obstacles between me and the speakers.

Also my car is small so the speakers to my right aren't that far away. (ehco hatchback) I can even out the pathlength a bit just by leaning a bit to my right. Anyway, thanks for the input. I needed to know the cons before I could make up my mind which way to go.

 

[xtremekustomz 10+ year member]

If you are planning on running a midbass in the doors I wouldn't run them any higher than 200 hz even dwon to 140 or 125 if possible. The human ear can tell where a sound is coming from above that frequency. I have the Dynaudio system 360 with the 8" midbass. My midrange and tweeter were in the kick panel and the midbass in the door. Everything was up high until there were male vocals and then the sound would be pulled down below the dash. The setup I have now is the midbass in the kick panel running from 50-140, the midrange from 140-6.3k, and the tweeter from 6.3 up. Placement is key to having everything sound right.

 

[Hebrew Hammer 10+ year member]

if your midbass drivers are playing anything over 200-250ish..then it is indeed directional and is playing lower male vocals...if you have the space and are willing to move them away from you...then you have more to gain than to leave them there...