Lowest RMS rating a Death Penalty can handle

[hatedonmostly 5,000+ posts]

Did you guys meter it by any chance? I believe I did that box for him.

Did a 143 on a 2200D iirc, sealed on the dash; 147 outlaw

 

[RAM_Designs 5,000+ posts]

Did a 143 on a 2200D iirc, sealed on the dash; 147 outlaw

Do you remember what frequency? I tuned that thing pretty low, like 31hz...those hatches really shine when metering outlaw too.

 

[benzmansl65amg 10+ year member]

ghey

 

[BlactimusCrime 10+ year member]

Do you remember what frequency? I tuned that thing pretty low, like 31hz...those hatches really shine when metering outlaw too.

It was pretty low like below 40 for sure.

we had it metered on the AQ2200 but not the 600w amp.

 

[helotaxi 5,000+ posts]

failure to provide enough power in order to get the results that you desire(assuming said sub can handle the power needed) is "underpowering," plain and simple.

Actually my point is that more power is rarely the correct or smart answer. Sending more power is playing a game of diminishing returns, rapidly diminishing.

 

[RAM_Designs 5,000+ posts]

Actually my point is that more power is rarely the correct or smart answer. Sending more power is playing a game of diminishing returns, rapidly diminishing.

But again, if said sub can handle the power(both thermally and mechanically), and the added power gets them more output(which they want), then why not? Altering the box to be more efficient has it's downfalls too, and will most likely not give you the same response curve without lowering the tune(assuming you're going with a larger box to be more efficient, and are currently happy with your response curve). Then you have to deal with sloppier transient response and higher group delay with the larger box in exchange for a little more efficient box.

I'm all for going with slightly larger boxes and using a little less power than recommended, it's just cheaper for me that way, but it's only beneficial to the point where subwoofer performance starts to suffer.

 

[t-money 10+ year member]

Underpowering a sub means that you are giving a subwoofer less power but wanting it louder. Therefore you're underpowering it cause it can take more power and you're giving it less. IE, if a sub is rated at 1000 rms and you give it 100 rms, you are not underpowering the subwoofer if you don't care about getting as loud as you can. If you have a sub thats 1000 rms and you want it to get as loud as possible but you're only giving it 300 rms, then you are underpowering the sub for what you intentions are. Underpowering a sub is only in relation to your goals. You can feed a subwoofer as little as you want without damaging it(gain set correctly) but if your goal is to get the most out of the subwoofer than anything less than what the sub can handle is underpowering it. I think most people don't understand what underpowering a sub means, i think most think its giving a sub less watts than whats its rated for, which is not true.

 

[helotaxi 5,000+ posts]

More power doesn't always make it perceptibly louder is the point that you guys seem to be missing. Depending on the specific sub and enclosure it is possible that you can double power without getting a dB increase in output. The closer you get to the power limit of a sub the less increase in output you're going to see by adding more power. If you've hit the point of diminishing returns and it still isn't loud enough, more power isn't the solution. More/different subs and/or a different box is.

The real problem is unrealistic expectations or expectations that do not align with the equipment in use; not running less than rated power to a sub. I see way to many guys that post about being unhappy with the output of their system and when they state that they are running 1kW to a sub or subs that can handle 1.5kW the answer that they always get it "you're underpowering those subs." The reality is that the increase from 1 to 1.5 kW will rarely give them an extra dB, thanks to power compression, and certainly won't cure their woes.

 

[VWBobby 10+ year member]

To put it a different way...

There's no replacement for displacement. If you want to increase your DB output for a given watt, you can either use more efficient drivers or increase the number of drivers. (more cone area = perceived loudness for a given watt). I see a lot of people on here using very inefficient subs (79-85db/watt).

You can get more db by using 2 or more efficient subs at 1000-watts compared to (1) inefficient sub at 1200-watts. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif

 

[helotaxi 5,000+ posts]

The sensitivity spec is worthless on a sub since it is derived at 1kHz.

 

[Magnus 10+ year member]

More power doesn't always make it perceptibly louder is the point that you guys seem to be missing. Depending on the specific sub and enclosure it is possible that you can double power without getting a dB increase in output. The closer you get to the power limit of a sub the less increase in output you're going to see by adding more power. If you've hit the point of diminishing returns and it still isn't loud enough, more power isn't the solution. More/different subs and/or a different box is.
The real problem is unrealistic expectations or expectations that do not align with the equipment in use; not running less than rated power to a sub. I see way to many guys that post about being unhappy with the output of their system and when they state that they are running 1kW to a sub or subs that can handle 1.5kW the answer that they always get it "you're underpowering those subs." The reality is that the increase from 1 to 1.5 kW will rarely give them an extra dB, thanks to power compression, and certainly won't cure their woes.

A buddy of mine is running a sub that handles 3k and is only feeding it about 700 watts and the thing is absolutely slamming. Sub is barely moving (very little excursion) yet putting up crazy numbers on the term lab. A buddy of mine who owns a fully loaded BTL 15 was completely shocked on how loud and clean it sounded.

 

[chillin 10+ year member]

The sensitivity spec is worthless on a sub since it is derived at 1kHz.

I was waiting to see that.

 

[Magnus 10+ year member]

Normal SPL subs sensitivity is usually from 70 to 80 dB. Sometimes even lower.

 

[RAM_Designs 5,000+ posts]

If you've hit the point of diminishing returns and it still isn't loud enough, more power isn't the solution. More/different subs and/or a different box is.

I agree with this, but I never once stated in my examples that I was reaching the point of diminishing returns. With my current setup, I can move my sub maybe 1" p2p with clean power from my amp...I've personally seen it move 2.5" p2p with more power, and I can guarantee you that it was quite a noticeable difference in output. That's more like a situation that I was trying to describe, where you have not even come close to mechanically maxing out the woofer and putting more power to it will increase driver displacement two-fold.

The real problem is unrealistic expectations or expectations that do not align with the equipment in use; not running less than rated power to a sub. I see way to many guys that post about being unhappy with the output of their system and when they state that they are running 1kW to a sub or subs that can handle 1.5kW the answer that they always get it "you're underpowering those subs." The reality is that the increase from 1 to 1.5 kW will rarely give them an extra dB, thanks to power compression, and certainly won't cure their woes.

I agree.

 

[ultimate157 5,000+ posts]

I always enjoy reading HeloTaxi's replies, and those attempting to argue with him ... Unsuccessfully.