Korean compared to Brazilian amplifiers (Electrical theory stuff)

[wew lad 5,000+ posts]

Can't tell if you're joking...
Even with the DSP, you can....

lol have you even scoped one?

 

[The_Quiet_One 10+ year member]

impedance doesn't mean anything. power input is power input.its the same as a motor. if this where true motors would be 1/2 ohm windings to get the maximum power..

to the latter part yes topology does affect drivers differently.

Nominal Impedance directly affects how the load reacts to power input considering a subwoofer and amp are a highly complicated, coupled electromagnetic circuit. It's only one of several variables that play a role, but it is there. Inductors by themselves get mathematically hairy real quick even without throwing in a non-constant BL curve, heat dissipation/buildup, the amps internals, etc....You can't just say P=I*V*cos(phi) or I=V/Z and expect that to be able to describe the situation fully, especially considering you're basically ignoring the time dependence of each EM entity. This is a dynamic situation where I believe your experience/knowledge in approximately steady state/well defined systems leads you to oversimplify what's going on.

The best answer IMO is it depends on way too many variables for anyone to be able to say definitively what's best for any person's setup.

I do agree; there are tons of other areas that need to be optimized first before anyone get their panties in a wad about brazilian vs korean. To be honest I thought the biggest issue about brazilian vs korean was the fact many people claim bad QC/reliability or inconsistent throughput across their frequency response which has more to do with topology. As far as power at higher voltages I don't think I've ever heard anyone complain about non brazilian offerings at higher impedances.:yumyum:JBL Crown

 

[ciaonzo 5,000+ posts]

honestly the best amps ive heard the arc,lunar,zapco and the old us amps.. sounds like you have alot more experience than me..suggestions?

Dude, those are all great amps capable of passing plenty of current. The Zapcos use pretty good size BJT devices and I believe they even spec out the current output on the channels. Zed does as well.

 

[ciaonzo 5,000+ posts]

Do you even phase angle?

Must admit, this is my favorite part of the conversation so far, lol.
+1

 

[SounDrive Pro Seller]

So you're telling me increasing my impedance magically makes my subs handle more power

 

[Papermaker85 5,000+ posts]

So you're telling me increasing my impedance magically makes my subs handle more power ��

no I mean it SHOULD make little to no difference. that being said higher voltage does allow current to flow easier.. you will get less voltage drop across the conductor.. technically higher amperage loard are a more sever duty cycle. For though

 

[Papermaker85 5,000+ posts]

Nominal Impedance directly affects how the load reacts to power input considering a subwoofer and amp are a highly complicated, coupled electromagnetic circuit. It's only one of several variables that play a role, but it is there. Inductors by themselves get mathematically hairy real quick even without throwing in a non-constant BL curve, heat dissipation/buildup, the amps internals, etc....You can't just say P=I*V*cos(phi) or I=V/Z and expect that to be able to describe the situation fully, especially considering you're basically ignoring the time dependence of each EM entity. This is a dynamic situation where I believe your experience/knowledge in approximately steady state/well defined systems leads you to oversimplify what's going on.
The best answer IMO is it depends on way too many variables for anyone to be able to say definitively what's best for any person's setup.

I do agree; there are tons of other areas that need to be optimized first before anyone get their panties in a wad about brazilian vs korean. To be honest I thought the biggest issue about brazilian vs korean was the fact many people claim bad QC/reliability or inconsistent throughput across their frequency response which has more to do with topology. As far as power at higher voltages I don't think I've ever heard anyone complain about non brazilian offerings at higher impedances.:yumyum:JBL Crown

From my experience power compression and electrical losses are FAR greater in inducing distortion. while its hard to argue that inductance along with other shifts as well as phase shifts/angle introduce little distortion alone I feel they DO compound the electromagnetic distortion further. I can't ignore the fact the heat and back EMF do directly alter your B/L curve/actual motor strength under applied power for a given alignment(excursion based) does MUCH more non-linear "motor strength" distortion than simple the typical b/l curve. then again I'm an idiot so who knows... matter fact Ive started to nearly ignore most small signal parameters except for using it as a basis of how much of a shift occurs. Naturally the drivers parameters shift once its up to operating temperature but that linear rise is the real key to having a linear b/l curve..

I will say it DOES help to have a very linear B/L curve but if the power compression its to great to even reach its maximum excursion in a specific alignment your motor is going to be even more non-linear than say starting off with a "average" curve and keeping power compression minimum..

BTW the driver I'm working on has a extended pole with a FULL copper sleeve on the tyoke and has nearly every cooling trick in the book its probably not going to be hear by the average customer but I can feel at rest these techniques work and will provide a better overall proformance in both lower distortion and output, wth the exception the copper sleve is higher diamagnetic the motor has to be pretty **** huge to get the desired motor strength to be competitive which cost about 15% more per unit vs using a smaller motor and no machines internals..

 

[adulbrich 5,000+ posts]

lol have you even scoped one?

No, and I don't plan to

 

[wew lad 5,000+ posts]

No, and I don't plan to

Then don't tell me what it looks like lol if you want I can show you what happens to the output when you clip a Brazilian

 

[adulbrich 5,000+ posts]

Then don't tell me what it looks like lol if you want I can show you what happens to the output when you clip a Brazilian

go ahead then

 

[Massive spl]

Then don't tell me what it looks like lol if you want I can show you what happens to the output when you clip a Brazilian

What u gunna show him a amplifier that caught on fire:laugh:

 

[wew lad 5,000+ posts]

here's a picture from taylorfades test ive got **** to do

 

[Papermaker85 5,000+ posts]

lol have you even scoped one?

just scoping the output does nothing.. all it shows is the output sinewave through the O scope pretty pointless..

 

---------- Post added at 04:44 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:43 PM ----------

 

here's a picture from taylorfades test ive got **** to do

yuck..

 

[ciaonzo 5,000+ posts]

From my experience power compression and electrical losses are FAR greater in inducing distortion. while its hard to argue that inductance along with other shifts as well as phase shifts/angle introduce little distortion alone I feel they DO compound the electromagnetic distortion further. I can't ignore the fact the heat and back EMF do directly alter your B/L curve/actual motor strength under applied power for a given alignment(excursion based) does MUCH more non-linear "motor strength" distortion than simple the typical b/l curve. then again I'm an idiot so who knows... matter fact Ive started to nearly ignore most small signal parameters except for using it as a basis of how much of a shift occurs. Naturally the drivers parameters shift once its up to operating temperature but that linear rise is the real key to having a linear b/l curve..I will say it DOES help to have a very linear B/L curve but if the power compression its to great to even reach its maximum excursion in a specific alignment your motor is going to be even more non-linear than say starting off with a "average" curve and keeping power compression minimum.

If only more people understood this. And some of that power compression comes from parts that were just thrown together, like low BL and stiff suspensions. Power compression disaster right there.

 

[ciaonzo 5,000+ posts]

here's a picture from taylorfades test ive got **** to do

Well, huh. That's sort of odd, it has a decent enough sinusoidal wave form but with high frequency hash. That's how the Brazilian stuff clips? Sorry if I misunderstood, I'm kinda multitasking.
Honestly, I think that might be just fine in most sub setups because it's not really increasing continuous average power by that much. That's similar to full range musical behavior, really.