Korean compared to Brazilian amplifiers (Electrical theory stuff)

[timma100 10+ year member]

Korean amplifiers achieve their total wattage output with a higher amperage output, hence why their internals are extremely beefy and thus the amps more costly. Conversely to that, Brazilian amplifiers significantly step-up output voltage to hit their wattage numbers, less current throughput reduces the need for beefy (heavy gauge and extremely stout) internals and thus reducing costs for the same total wattage. Here is where my question begins, 7kW =/= 7kW, what I mean by this, is a 7kW total output can be achieved with 200Volts and 35Amperes or 46Volts and 150Amperes.. Electromagnetic coils (The coils in the woofer) have a direct relation to magnetic flux saturation and amperage.. Meaning, more amperage, more magnetic flux lines, meaning a stronger magnetic field, thus leading to a more powerful excursion.. So, wouldn't Brazilian amplifiers technically fall short even at the same "wattage" level?

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[dailyrider123]

I say "Get Korean and don't worry about it" close thread....

 

[wew lad 5,000+ posts]

here's your answer, found it a while back. the source reference is one similar to what you're reading and probably hearing from @papermaker .......... enough of this current bs now?

Quoting from the article Loudspeaker operation: The superiority of current drive over voltage drive | EDN of Esa Merilainen "The most remarkable thing here regarding loudspeakers is that the voltage between the ends of the wire does not appear anywhere in these equations. That is, the speaker driver in the end obeys only current, not caring what the voltage across the terminals happens to be." So far so good, but then he writes that "There cannot be found any scientifically valid reasons that justify the adoption of voltage as the control quantity - it is only due to the historical legacy originated almost a century ago, most likely by cheapness and simplicity; the quality and physical soundness of operation have not been considerations in this choice." and that is just not true. There is a very good reason for having voltage the control variable for a loudspeaker and that is because the impedance of a loudspeaker is a large inductance with some loss and motional capacitance. It is inductive below the resonant frequency and inductive again above the frequency of |Zmin||Zmin|. True enough, in between those frequencies it is capacitive but a charge pump (controlled current source) will have a tough time to push and pull currents through the impedance that is mostly inductive.

electromagnetism - Current vs Voltage Drive for Loudspeakers - Physics Stack Exchange

power = power (disregard efficiency..)

that's not changing

 

[timma100 10+ year member]

[quote name='wew lad']here's your answer, found it a while back. the source reference is one similar to what you're reading and probably hearing from @papermaker .......... enough of this current bs now?



electromagnetism - Current vs Voltage Drive for Loudspeakers - Physics Stack Exchange

power = power (disregard efficiency..)

that's not changing[/QUOTE]

Awesome article! this is essentially what I'm getting at

"the speaker driver in the end obeys only current, not caring what the voltage across the terminals happens to be"

 

[dailyrider123]

So basically was I right ?

 

[wew lad 5,000+ posts]

Awesome article! this is essentially what I'm getting at
"the speaker driver in the end obeys only current, not caring what the voltage across the terminals happens to be"

you're missing the point, that's irrelevant in the context of a loudspeaker we're referring to

 

[timma100 10+ year member]

So basically was I right ?

I already own a Korean amp, and will probably buy another, or a Brazilian.. I'm more interested in seeing their perceived and actual differences than total output.. Because science n' **** man

 

---------- Post added at 07:23 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:22 PM ----------

 

you're missing the point, that's irrelevant in the context of a loudspeaker we're referring to

Because of its action as an inductor?

 

[Jeffdachef 5,000+ posts]

So basically was I right ?

nope

 

[dailyrider123]

@Jeffdachef I need to get with you if possible to puck your brain about my front stage,DSP,multi channel amps, etc. Deallung with my build. I'm asking because I've read things you've posted around here and you seem very knowledgeable to me.

 

[SounDrive Pro Seller]

In theory, maybe a little louder... in application, there is no real difference. This is something I've been exploring for a while, but finding articles hasn't been easy.

 

[adulbrich 5,000+ posts]

Brazilian is cheaper and you can tout a larger number of "power you're running".

Only thing is, I've never seen a Brazilian amp clamped doing rated without blowing up. Have seen lots of Korean amps do rated when wired low. Can't wire Brazilian amps real low to compensate for impedance rise.

You could buy an HD 8000, wire to two ohms, and never get 8k out of it. Or, you could buy a TFE 8.0, wire to .5, and get gobs more power than the Brazilian.

The Brazilian amp is going to be cheaper, efficient, and require less electrical, but it won't make as much power at the end of the day. The right choice for you depends on your goals

 

[Jeffdachef 5,000+ posts]

[quote name='adulbrich']Brazilian is cheaper and you can tout a larger number of "power you're running".

Only thing is, I've never seen a Brazilian amp clamped doing rated without blowing up. Have seen lots of Korean amps do rated when wired low. Can't wire Brazilian amps real low to compensate for impedance rise.

You could buy an HD 8000, wire to two ohms, and never get 8k out of it. Or, you could buy a TFE 8.0, wire to .5, and get gobs more power than the Brazilian.

The Brazilian amp is going to be cheaper, efficient, and require less electrical, but it won't make as much power at the end of the day. The right choice for you depends on your goals[/QUOTE]

thing is you have to even up the playing field A TFE at 1 ohm vs a taramps 8k at 1 ohm. Some people dont care about under 1 ohm wiring. The TFE would be subjected to the same rise as the taramps however its gonna cost over double the taramps. The TFE is also a 11.5k board (or something like that) put it up against the new banda 14k at 1 ohms.


[quote name='dailyrider123']@Jeffdachef I need to get with you if possible to puck your brain about my front stage,DSP,multi channel amps, etc. Deallung with my build. I'm asking because I've read things you've posted around here and you seem very knowledgeable to me.[/QUOTE]

hit me up with a pm.

 

[adulbrich 5,000+ posts]

thing is you have to even up the playing field A TFE at 1 ohm vs a taramps 8k at 1 ohm. Some people dont care about under 1 ohm wiring. The TFE would be subjected to the same rise as the taramps however its gonna cost over double the taramps. The TFE is also a 11.5k board (or something like that) put it up against the new banda 14k at 1 ohms.



hit me up with a pm.

You don't have to even up the playing field. If you want to wire to 1 ohm nominal, yeah might as well get a Brazilian if you're scurred //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/hide.gif.2d479cfd917eedfe201353b91522ceab.gif

Or if you've got bad electrical and are cheap, go Brazilian.

I loved my Banda 7k, but I bet a TFE can make more power than a Banda 14k....

 

[Jeffdachef 5,000+ posts]

You don't have to even up the playing field. If you want to wire to 1 ohm nominal, yeah might as well get a Brazilian if you're scurred //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/hide.gif.2d479cfd917eedfe201353b91522ceab.gif
Or if you've got bad electrical and are cheap, go Brazilian.

I loved my Banda 7k, but I bet a TFE can make more power than a Banda 14k....

wired to .175 ohms... by that time might as well build a mini nuclear power plant in your car.

On a side note, i just scored 5 group 31 C&D batts for 100 bucks.

Build should be finished by next week!

 

[adulbrich 5,000+ posts]

wired to .175 ohms... by that time might as well build a mini nuclear power plant in your car.
On a side note, i just scored 5 group 31 C&D batts for 100 bucks.

Build should be finished by next week!

That's a nice score, I was hoping you'd upgrade your electrical before running the TFE, lol.

How old/used are they?