KnuKonceptz claimed ampacity

[ramos 5,000+ posts]

Probably a dumb question. But is anybody trying to pull 300 amps through a single run of 1/0 anyway? I don't recall ever seeing a single vehicle with a 300+ amp current draw with a single 1/0 run of wire. Arguing for the sake of arguing. Being an engineer myself, I hope I wasn't like this in school //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/frown.gif.a3531fa0534503350665a1e957861287.gif

 

[RAM_Designs 5,000+ posts]

Probably a dumb question. But is anybody trying to pull 300 amps through a single run of 1/0 anyway? I don't recall ever seeing a single vehicle with a 300+ amp current draw with a single 1/0 run of wire. Arguing for the sake of arguing. Being an engineer myself, I hope I wasn't like this in school //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/frown.gif.a3531fa0534503350665a1e957861287.gif

I'm sure lots of people do. Big 3kw amp plus a 4channel all on a single run of 1/0 from the front. I highly doubt that most people running a Sundown 3k are also doing dual 1/0 runs to the back.

 

[roarzorz 10+ year member]

Pay attention ya troll. This is car audio. Wire does not have to sustain large amounts of current for extended periods of time. Yes I've passed more than 400+ amps of current through a single 1/0awg Knu-Fleks wire during burps. No problems.

Now pay attention close here. Have you ever actually been to an event and seen guys BassRace the 129.9 class? Do it then come back and tell me that their 130db+ for 30sec is killing their hearing. You can barely hear it over ambient noise.

Point; get some real world experience ya freakin troll instead of copy/pasting **** you read on the internet.

 

[ramos 5,000+ posts]

I'm sure lots of people do. Big 3kw amp plus a 4channel all on a single run of 1/0 from the front. I highly doubt that most people running a Sundown 3k are also doing dual 1/0 runs to the back.

I'm behind the times man. I forgot we are in the times of the 3-10kw daily ground pounders. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

 

[roarzorz 10+ year member]

Probably a dumb question. But is anybody trying to pull 300 amps through a single run of 1/0 anyway? I don't recall ever seeing a single vehicle with a 300+ amp current draw with a single 1/0 run of wire. Arguing for the sake of arguing. Being an engineer myself, I hope I wasn't like this in school //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/frown.gif.a3531fa0534503350665a1e957861287.gif

For short bursts yes, for continued extended periods no.

 

[ramos 5,000+ posts]

Pay attention ya troll. This is car audio. Wire does not have to sustain large amounts of current for extended periods of time. Yes I've passed more than 400+ amps of current through a single 1/0awg Knu-Fleks wire during burps. No problems.
Now pay attention close here. Have you ever actually been to an event and seen guys BassRace the 129.9 class? Do it then come back and tell me that their 130db+ for 30sec is killing their hearing. You can barely hear it over ambient noise.

Point; get some real world experience ya freakin troll instead of copy/pasting **** you read on the internet.

130db can be very painful if the frequency is high enough. I can take 130db below 70~hz or so all day long, but bump the frequency to 1500~hz and you can forget that chit. My fat arse can't take it lol //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

 

[tommyk90 5,000+ posts]

130db can be very painful if the frequency is high enough. I can take 130db below 70~hz or so all day long, but bump the frequency to 1500~hz and you can forget that chit. My fat arse can't take it lol //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

Which is why those charts that compare a jet take off to a car stereo are bogus.

Of course 120 db @ 20000 hz will jack you up, but NOBODY'S car is capable of that. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

Lower frequencies are much less damaging to your hearing. I was practicing bassrace in the 129.9 class yesterday and it's barely audible outside my car. There's plenty of people out there who have been listening to loud stereos for 20+ years and have perfect hearing.

OP is a troll. Has to be.

 

[bw_audio 10+ year member]

..

 

[sundownz Pro Seller]

I have a single 4 awg cable on my bench about 5 ft long that has been used to test nearly every amplifier ever shipped from Sundown Audio... it is not melted, FYI.

I pulled 150 amps through it for 30 minutes yesterday (measured current) and it was just getting warm.

We have tested 30-40 SAZ-3500Ds back to back on this same cable cable for a few minutes at a time... just enough time to unhook one and hook up the next. Still not melted.

MakeshiftAudio = knows what he is talking about here

 

[ramos 5,000+ posts]

I have a single 4 awg cable on my bench about 5 ft long that has been used to test nearly every amplifier ever shipped from Sundown Audio... it is not melted, FYI.
I pulled 150 amps through it for 30 minutes yesterday (measured current) and it was just getting warm.

We have tested 30-40 SAZ-3500Ds back to back on this same cable cable for a few minutes at a time... just enough time to unhook one and hook up the next. Still not melted.

MakeshiftAudio = knows what he is talking about here

4 1500's on 20' ~ of 1/0 and the wire didn't get warm at all. THat poor bolt on the other hand lol //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

 

[andrewmoore13 10+ year member]

OP is an ignorant toolbag.

/Thread.

 

[sundownz Pro Seller]

4 1500's on 20' ~ of 1/0 and the wire didn't get warm at all. THat poor bolt on the other hand lol //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

*laughs*

Indeed!

 

[its_not_ray_ray 10+ year member]

op. u r just one special person

1/0 Graphite Black Power / Ground Cable 20 1.75

Klear Kable Blue 12 Gauge Speaker Wire 10 0.50

Speaker Wire Pants - 12 Gauge (Y boot) 2 0.99

KLMX Kable 8 Gauge Candy Apple Red Power / Ground Cable 10 0.39

Gold Plated AGU 60 Amp Fuse. 4 0.89

all = to 57.43 (thats shipped)

op tell me this. where can you get all this for so cheap? even if this was **** wire, u can even get 4 ga. this cheap. they have amazing products. and the fastest shipping. i ordered this 2 days ago at midnight. and got all this nothing but 10 min ago. so i think ur just starting ****. and everyone in this whole site will back up my statement.

so the ? is. What is your problem?

 

[midnightg35x 10+ year member]

It changes roughly, but not enough to change the numbers to matter.
I'm not an engineer yet. I don't know the fields, but I'm on my way to being one. Some sort of electrical engineer. Thinking about RF of analog/digital circuit fields.

RF is the way to go //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/thumbsup.gif.3287b36ca96645a13a43aff531f37f02.gif I design high power RF amplifiers //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

As far as this discussion is going.... the OP is trolling. From my memory, McIntosh is technically correct in the strict term of ampacity.... it does not depend on length. The thing that people I think are missing is that whatever you have connected to the end of the wire is expecting a certain voltage so it can make a certain power. Length of wire certain determines voltage drop.

For example, if you have an amp that needs to have 3600W (12V x 300A) input into it, a 5 ft run is fine because its voltage drop is going to be tiny (pretty much 0). Therefore the wire is still gonna draw 300A. Assuming this is within the ampacity of the wire (and in 99.9% of real world cases ampacity is determined by the insulation of the wire, not the wire itself), everything will be fine. Now if you switch to a 200ft cable of the same ampacity connected to the same amp, lets say your voltage drop is 2V. That means that the same amp now has to draw 360A (10V x 360A) to get the same input power. Now if that is higher than the ampacity of the wire, problems come up //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

This is turning into a theory vs application debate. Next should we debate changing the common convention of current flowing from + to - when the electrons actually flow from - to +? As stated earlier, most ampacity is actually limited by the insulation anyway. When the insulation fails, the wire is considered to have failed. That also means the wire is scorching hot.... all bad things //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif I do EE, not ME, so I do not know all of the heat transfer sides, but I'm sure it is non-linear and at longer lengths the heating will not be even all along the wires.

For the TL,DR folks,

McIntosh is technically correct, is trolling, and needs to realize that the manufacturer's claims are made based on their application not the strict definition of ampacity. In application, length of wire will certainly matter.

 

[MakeshiftAudio 10+ year member]

RF is the way to go //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/thumbsup.gif.3287b36ca96645a13a43aff531f37f02.gif I design high power RF amplifiers //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif
As far as this discussion is going.... the OP is trolling. From my memory, McIntosh is technically correct in the strict term of ampacity.... it does not depend on length. The thing that people I think are missing is that whatever you have connected to the end of the wire is expecting a certain voltage so it can make a certain power. Length of wire certain determines voltage drop.

For example, if you have an amp that needs to have 3600W (12V x 300A) input into it, a 5 ft run is fine because its voltage drop is going to be tiny (pretty much 0). Therefore the wire is still gonna draw 300A. Assuming this is within the ampacity of the wire (and in 99.9% of real world cases ampacity is determined by the insulation of the wire, not the wire itself), everything will be fine. Now if you switch to a 200ft cable of the same ampacity connected to the same amp, lets say your voltage drop is 2V. That means that the same amp now has to draw 360A (10V x 360A) to get the same input power. Now if that is higher than the ampacity of the wire, problems come up //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

This is turning into a theory vs application debate. Next should we debate changing the common convention of current flowing from + to - when the electrons actually flow from - to +? As stated earlier, most ampacity is actually limited by the insulation anyway. When the insulation fails, the wire is considered to have failed. That also means the wire is scorching hot.... all bad things //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif I do EE, not ME, so I do not know all of the heat transfer sides, but I'm sure it is non-linear and at longer lengths the heating will not be even all along the wires.

For the TL,DR folks,

McIntosh is technically correct, is trolling, and needs to realize that the manufacturer's claims are made based on their application not the strict definition of ampacity. In application, length of wire will certainly matter.

Sweet. Let's see, are we talking about resonant RF amplifiers? //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif If so, shoot me a PM.

Not directed at g35x, supporting his statement, if you look at the (REAL) ampacity charts, you'll notice that they're based on the max rated insulation temperature. I believe that the standard grades are 75*C, 85*C, and 95*C, which is 167*F, 185*F, and 203*F respectively. I would consider that pretty hot, considering the last temperature is almost water's boiling point.

I have a single 4 awg cable on my bench about 5 ft long that has been used to test nearly every amplifier ever shipped from Sundown Audio... it is not melted, FYI.
I pulled 150 amps through it for 30 minutes yesterday (measured current) and it was just getting warm.

We have tested 30-40 SAZ-3500Ds back to back on this same cable cable for a few minutes at a time... just enough time to unhook one and hook up the next. Still not melted.

MakeshiftAudio = knows what he is talking about here

Yeah, it all boils down to length. When I bench my amps, I have 4/0 cables (I forget, something like 4-5', one run per rail) from my SMPS and battery bank, all the way to the point of a couple inches away from the amp which then goes into a reducer if needed or distro that I machined to allow it to hook to dual 12V power connectors if it is an amp that has dual inputs. (See AB VFL 400.1, Orion 2500D)

Thanks for the praise, I hope you don't mind if I sig that, it's kinda cool being praised by you. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif