impedence rise

[cotjones 10+ year member]

Has your back window blown out yet?

nope but considering that the back window protrudes half a inch with about a fourth of the rated power to it... something is bound to give eventually... either the glass or the window latch

 

[Chevyaudio 5,000+ posts]

Yeah...I wouldnt hold your breath that you're going to break your glass...

 

[JimJ 5,000+ posts]

you are right and i actually adimited that but lets say that you series wired your dvc's with 100' of 20 awg wire, then you would definitly have more distortion than parallel... am i right?

Then you wouldn't be dealing with back EMF, you'd be dealing with issues resulting from the output impedance of the amplifier itself. It would just raise the damping factor.

Different issue, and not one you're going to experience unless you set up pro sound venues...

 

[leonsv 10+ year member]

how is it not credible? all the square subs i've heard have had poor sq! in the form of a buzz at high volumes that sounds the same at allmost every frequency... now you are trying to argue that my opinion isn't credible

how many different square subs have you heard? also because there aren't many square subs around you really can't make a educated assumption on how square subs sound in general.. just not enough products to experiment with.. it'll be like saying "all the circular subs i've heard have had poor sq!" after hearing maybe a BTL and a MT...

 

[helotaxi 5,000+ posts]

Also have you ever noticed the really big reinforcing ribs running diagonally across the square Kickers' cones? Those are there for rigidity. Get the structure rigid enough and shape becomes largely irrelevant. At music listening volume and power levels, the square Kickers are more than rigid enough.

 

[cotjones 10+ year member]

hey when wiring 2 batts in parallel do you have to post to post for negative or can you use the car?

 

[cotjones 10+ year member]

Also have you ever noticed the really big reinforcing ribs running diagonally across the square Kickers' cones? Those are there for rigidity. Get the structure rigid enough and shape becomes largely irrelevant. At music listening volume and power levels, the square Kickers are more than rigid enough.

thats true but with added support or braceing on the cone you are also adding weight so yeah, in theory you could make a star shaped sub sound good but doesn't it seem like a waste when you can do easily as a circle and avoid all those issues of rigidity and weight? with all that in mind you can allways almost without exeption make a round sub sound better than any other shape

 

[newusername 10+ year member]

thats true but with added support or braceing on the cone you are also adding weight so yeah, in theory you could make a star shaped sub sound good but doesn't it seem like a waste when you can do easily as a circle and avoid all those issues of rigidity and weight? with all that in mind you can allways almost without exeption make a round sub sound better than any other shape

More displacement with less excursion seems like a great idea to me. Don't see why you can't seem to get that.

Obviously you have a vast amount of engineering experience, so perhaps I shouldn't question your judgement.

//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif

 

[cotjones 10+ year member]

More displacement with less excursion seems like a great idea to me. Don't see why you can't seem to get that.
Obviously you have a vast amount of engineering experience, so perhaps I shouldn't question your judgement.

//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif

air displacement and excursion are far from the only things that effect a subs performance... if that were the case then sq wouldn't exist and subs would have crankshafts instead of voice coils
yeah its great for spl but horrible for sq... but how bout this?... get a 12w7 to about 140dbs then get an L7 to do the same and tell me which one sounds better...

not just that, in most installs w7's or mabe even those q's you all like, would put out just as good spl with better sq...

yeah i'll give it this... the extra area and no wasted space is a plus when short on room but most round subs with comparable piston area and similar motor will walk all over the squares in output and sound quality... the problem is the squares just don't have the ability to hit long excursions and maintain sound quality, you can only brace a cone so much before cone weight effects performance and it takes alot of braceing to keep a cone from deforming thats being pushed that hard going in and out 100 times a second... the squares are by no means my least fav. audio invention but if you have the room i think round are far superior

 

[JimJ 5,000+ posts]

yeah its great for spl but horrible for sq...

I guess those guys who run infinite baffle don't have a clue...

get a 12w7 to about 135dbs then get an L7 to do the same and tell me which one sounds better...

Check what's won IASCA several times //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif

I'm not advocated one cone shape over another...I'm just saying, in the right hands, it doesn't matter all that much //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/tongue.gif.6130eb82179565f6db8d26d6001dcd24.gif

 

[newusername 10+ year member]

air displacement and excursion are far from the only things that effect a subs performance... if that were the case then sq wouldn't exist and subs would have crankshafts instead of voice coils
yeah its great for spl but horrible for sq... but how bout this?... get a 12w7 to about 140dbs then get an L7 to do the same and tell me which one sounds better...

not just that, in most installs w7's or mabe even those q's you all like, would put out just as good spl with better sq...

yeah i'll give it this... the extra area and no wasted space is a plus when short on room but most round subs with comparable piston area and similar motor will walk all over the squares in output and sound quality... the problem is the squares just don't have the ability to hit long excursions and maintain sound quality, you can only brace a cone so much before cone weight effects performance and it takes alot of braceing to keep a cone from deforming thats being pushed that hard going in and out 100 times a second... the squares are by no means my least fav. audio invention but if you have the room i think round are far superior

Here's food for thought that is not often mentioned:

Driver A is a square subwoofer. It can displace 1 cubic foot of air with 90% of the coil still in the gap.

Driver B is a round subwoofer. It can displace 1 cubic foot of air with 70% of the coil still in the gap.

So which is better again?

Just to cover my own butt, in no way am I stating that a square sub is always more linear than a round one. However, the advantage of the square design is that you can either use a smaller coil than it's round counterpart and still displace the same amount of air will keeping inductance lower, or you can use a coil that is just as long as displace more air.

Again, not stating that a square cone is the best option, but it has it's own advantages that are not to be discounted. There is no single design that will always prove to be the best.

 

[cotjones 10+ year member]

Here's food for thought that is not often mentioned:
Driver A is a square subwoofer. It can displace 1 cubic foot of air with 90% of the coil still in the gap.

Driver B is a round subwoofer. It can displace 1 cubic foot of air with 70% of the coil still in the gap.

So which is better again?

Just to cover my own butt, in no way am I stating that a square sub is always more linear than a round one. However, the advantage of the square design is that you can either use a smaller coil than it's round counterpart and still displace the same amount of air will keeping inductance lower, or you can use a coil that is just as long as displace more air.

Again, not stating that a square cone is the best option, but it has it's own advantages that are not to be discounted. There is no single design that will always prove to be the best.

no yeah like i said for spl the square design is great, that 18 solex has a good chance at a record with the right install, but SQ is lacking horribly

 

[cotjones 10+ year member]

I guess those guys who run infinite baffle don't have a clue...


Check what's won IASCA several times //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif

I'm not advocated one cone shape over another...I'm just saying, in the right hands, it doesn't matter all that much //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/tongue.gif.6130eb82179565f6db8d26d6001dcd24.gif

i am willing to accept that i am wrong about the following: but i've never seen L7's take first in an SQ comp. if they have please show me where

 

[bdawson72 5,000+ posts]

wow, just wow

You are arguing with jimj and devildriver about sq and the logistics of woofer engineering....who's next lloyd

you sir are either very brave or very very dumb

 

[T3mpest 10+ year member]

no yeah like i said for spl the square design is great, that 18 solex has a good chance at a record with the right install, but SQ is lacking horribly

They are using actual numbers and examples, your using VERY simple generalities. There is no inherent SQ loss with a square woofer. A circle allows for more linear displacement, a square will allow for more surface area, each are part of linear displacement. It really comes down to the driver itself, not the shape of the cone. Anyway, for sq world champions using square kickers, google gary biggs. Sufficive to say, quite a few grand master sq awards have gone to people using kicker equipment.