impedence rise

[bdawson72 5,000+ posts]

i realize that now, but you can raise it... it is allways best to ask

I understand........I guess its best 2 learn here than 2 get punished in a face 2 face convo with someone //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/veryhappy.gif.fec4fed33b4a1279cf10bdd45a039dae.gif

 

[cotjones 10+ year member]

i am not talking about opions like what brand is better, i am talking about your explantion on stuff, such as why a square sub perform poorly for sq. I don't care if you like them or not but your reason for why these sound bad is some made up ******** and you need to stop talking about stuff you have no idea about.

i believe my exact words where "perhaps the the reason is because..." ,clearly, a hypothetical statment which completely left the door open for someone to correct, but the tendancey once again is to ignore the statement and flame away

This why you get flamed you have no knowledge about car audio and thus should take some time to read threw threads and learn before thinking you know it all

who are you to tell me what i know about audio?

never once did i claim to know it all... infact all my threads have been questions or hypothetical statements save the one about wireing

 

[cotjones 10+ year member]

i already posted examples of where you give terrible advice. Here is one of your qoutes from the thread. You just ramble on and don't make any sense and kicker does make a pretty nice round sub that is just like the l7 but has better sq called the cvx.
Originally Posted by cotjones

x2 yeah i've seen some 13w7's in sealed boxes that are a bit too small and they don't do much at all... but then again i've seen a 10w7 in some kind of tube form ported box push around 145... i've heard of people getting 150 from one but never seen it... just my personal opinion: i just find that at very high levels the L7's seem to let off a generic buzz on all frequencies, possibly because the square form produces an uneven force on the cone mass causeing harmonic distortion a round cone allows for the most even distribution of power over the cone the more vertices you add the harder it is to balance that force, at high volumes esspecially, anyone heard that 18" solox... not very good SQ indeed not much at all from the 5 different setups i've heard... just my opinion... i think that the square forms are hurting kicker yea they are loud due to the increased piston area... but to design a speaker to sound good it doesn't make much sence to make it a square, wish they still made the round ones...

key comments

EDIT: also i like the cvx's just installed 2 12's but he asked about whether he should get the w7 or l7's he didn't mention the cvx

 

[JimJ 5,000+ posts]

Your quote from Greg Monfort is not correct 100%. Back EMF is only a concern when wiring single voice coil speakers together, not DVC's.

JL Audio has a handy link: http://mobile.jlaudio.com/support_pages.php?page_id=163

//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

 

[bigj06040 10+ year member]

key comments

i was not talking about you opinion but rather your explanation which was

because the square form produces an uneven force on the cone mass causeing harmonic distortion a round cone allows for the most even distribution of power over the cone the more vertices you add the harder it is to balance that force, at high volumes esspeciall

IT DOES NOT MAKE ANY SENSE

 

[T3mpest 10+ year member]

key comments
EDIT: also i like the cvx's just installed 2 12's but he asked about whether he should get the w7 or l7's he didn't mention the cvx

Before this get's any uglier, I'm goin to answer your questions.

No, your imdence won't drop any lower. Impedence changes with frequency and power applied, but when speaker manf. rate impedence, they rate it at the lowest possible value. If not, then a person could potentially blow a amp by running it too low on accident, if a 2ohm sub could drop to .25, but your amp is stable at 2 at lowest, you'd be in trouble. There is a reason it's called impedence RISE, it increases, not decreases.

Secondly, you had a comment about smaller boxes having lower power handling, this is untrue. There are 2 main types of power handling, mechanical and thermal. Mechanical power handling is how much power it will take at a given frequency to drive speaker to it's maximum excursion. The size of the box dictates this, smaller boxes require more power to reach maximum excursion due to the increased pressure on the cone. Hence, larger boxes have LESS mechanical power handling. Thermal power handling, on the other hand is simply how much power it takes to fry the coils. All and all, this is pretty much the same in any box, as heat dissapation is more a product of coil surface area than anything else. SPl competitors use this to their advantage. Ported boxes dont' allow for much movement near tuning, so high power handling is a must. It takes alot of power to make the cone move at all near those frequencies, plus they are burping a higher frequency where excursion isn't an issue, so thermal power handling becomes the true limiter.

 

[cotjones 10+ year member]

i was not talking about you opinion but rather your explanation which was


IT DOES NOT MAKE ANY SENSE

it doesn't make sence? a voice coil is round the cone and surround is square this means their will be more stress on the midpoints of the lines than at the corners (uneven power distribution) this would mean that the sub has to have more stress on it to maintain the same frequency responce as a perfectly distributed power source in a round sub

 

[cotjones 10+ year member]

Before this get's any uglier, I'm goin to answer your questions.
No, your imdence won't drop any lower. Impedence changes with frequency and power applied, but when speaker manf. rate impedence, they rate it at the lowest possible value. If not, then a person could potentially blow a amp by running it too low on accident, if a 2ohm sub could drop to .25, but your amp is stable at 2 at lowest, you'd be in trouble. There is a reason it's called impedence RISE, it increases, not decreases.

Secondly, you had a comment about smaller boxes having lower power handling, this is untrue. There are 2 main types of power handling, mechanical and thermal. Mechanical power handling is how much power it will take at a given frequency to drive speaker to it's maximum excursion. The size of the box dictates this, smaller boxes require more power to reach maximum excursion due to the increased pressure on the cone. Hence, larger boxes have LESS mechanical power handling. Thermal power handling, on the other hand is simply how much power it takes to fry the coils. All and all, this is pretty much the same in any box, as heat dissapation is more a product of coil surface area than anything else. SPl competitors use this to their advantage. Ported boxes dont' allow for much movement near tuning, so high power handling is a must. It takes alot of power to make the cone move at all near those frequencies, plus they are burping a higher frequency where excursion isn't an issue, so thermal power handling becomes the true limiter.

thank you, so i was right that power handleing of a smaller box is larger but i missunderstood why

 

[hardhitta47 10+ year member]

it doesn't make sence? a voice coil is round the cone and surround is square this means their will be more stress on the midpoints of the lines than at the corners (uneven power distribution) this would mean that the sub has to have more stress on it to maintain the same frequency responce as a perfectly distributed power source in a round sub

wait...say that again?

 

[cotjones 10+ year member]

Your quote from Greg Monfort is not correct 100%. Back EMF is only a concern when wiring single voice coil speakers together, not DVC's.
JL Audio has a handy link: http://mobile.jlaudio.com/support_pages.php?page_id=163

//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

you are right and i actually adimited that but lets say that you series wired your dvc's with 100' of 20 awg wire, then you would definitly have more distortion than parallel... am i right?

 

[T3mpest 10+ year member]

thank you, so i was right that power handleing of a smaller box is smaller but i missunderstood why

NO POWER HANDLING OF A SMALLER BOX IS LARGER, reread

 

[cotjones 10+ year member]

wait...say that again?

basiclly the motor of the sub has more controll over the cone of a round sub than a square at high levels ... the reason for the square is increased piston area more spl but it hurts sq because the square design just don't make sence when the goal is to acuratly reproduce a recorded sound or performance

 

[cotjones 10+ year member]

NO POWER HANDLING OF A SMALLER BOX IS LARGER, reread

right sorry mix up... edited

 

[T3mpest 10+ year member]

you are right and i actually adimited that but lets say that you series wired your dvc's with 100' of 20 awg wire, then you would definitly have more distortion than parallel... am i right?

no, read more, talk less, I'll quote the JL link directly.

[back EMF modulation is not a concern when the voice coils of a dual voice coil speaker are wired in series to each other because the coils are physically coupled on one moving mass. Therefore, they cannot possibly modulate each other because they cannot move independently.

 

[cotjones 10+ year member]

i don't think even kicker's designers would argue that the square design doesn't hurt sq, why do you think they make round subs with the same motors?