how to run a 2nd bat.

[audiolife 5,000+ posts]

i have worked tech in the industry, i have been a rep in the industry, i have been an installer in the industry, conducted professional sales, i have been a top 2 national competitor(in class) and a regular consumer (i also went to college for eet....) for someone with so many degrees and saying this and that you don't have a very good understanding of the industry standards (which between reputable companies is pretty solid imho).... I'm not in the industry now and never been fired. I just didn't like the town I was in. as of right now I like racing toy cars over "serious" audio.....

I'm not tooting my horn nor am I saying I'm never wrong but i fail to see where posting about energy feilds solves anything in this. the bigger the alt you go there are trade offs in performance,dependability and so forth... and it is really DUMB not to use a bigger alt with multiple batteries....

 

[Thnking 10+ year member]

Tech, sales rep, installer, competitor...doesn't mean jack in terms of TECHNICAL knowledge of electronics. Kind of like your argument about how Kinetik batteries are superior because top competitors use them. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/rolleyes.gif.c1fef805e9d1464d377451cd5bc18bfb.gif

I also don't know how you could have been a tech and not understand how these things operate.

Posting about energy fields started because you commented incorrectly on how the alternator was dropping voltage due to changes in load...which you failed to recognize how alternator current output functions.

And the question was never if someone should use a higher output alternator with more batteries, it was if someone should use multiple batteries in the first place...which there is no reason to with a properly sized alternator. Anything that I've brought up which has been "technical" is to disprove your incorrect opinions on how the electrical system functions.

The overall fact remains, that nothing you've said can backup the use of multiple batteries in a car (outside of huge loads) vs. a properly sized alternator. And I've given all the information on why multiple batteries are used, and how they should be used.

 

[audiolife 5,000+ posts]

Tech, sales rep, installer, competitor...doesn't mean jack in terms of TECHNICAL knowledge of electronics. Kind of like your argument about how Kinetik batteries are superior because top competitors use them. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/rolleyes.gif.c1fef805e9d1464d377451cd5bc18bfb.gifI also don't know how you could have been a tech and not understand how these things operate.

Posting about energy fields started because you commented incorrectly on how the alternator was dropping voltage due to changes in load...which you failed to recognize how alternator current output functions.

And the question was never if someone should use a higher output alternator with more batteries, it was if someone should use multiple batteries in the first place...which there is no reason to with a properly sized alternator. Anything that I've brought up which has been "technical" is to disprove your incorrect opinions on how the electrical system functions.

The overall fact remains, that nothing you've said can backup the use of multiple batteries in a car (outside of huge loads) vs. a properly sized alternator. And I've given all the information on why multiple batteries are used, and how they should be used.

lol you are a riot...so in an average system with a 100 amp alt lets say it has a 1600 watt system are you trying to tell me during music the draw is so much at a constant that the alt couldnt keep up charging 2 batts?? i have done this in vehicles that used old ppi class ab amps running down to 2 ohms never had a problem (one car lasted 3 yrs until i sold it same batts and alt.)

you bring up kinetik ..i used to work there funny thing is all the competitors bought their stuff (EVERYONE) and i am 100% positive that almost all get offers to run free batteries but dont...so what does that say when world class spl and sq guys use a product that they pay for over another that they probably can get for free?

i dont know how the hell you claim to say you know exactly how a charging system works. you totally by passed the basics (which is funny )and ripped into 1 area that doesnt mean sh1t because its not the whole problem. ........

what are the issues with changing alts? longevity of the units, mechanically able to install them , plus knowing if you have the right parts to make it work with your car, costs....blah blah blah vs hooking up a propper agm cell in the back/trunk. if you have potential to draw alot more than what your alt puts out then of course get a bigger alt but it isnt nearly the necessity all the time. (im pretty sure the guys wanting to run 3000+ watts rms know they will need a bigger alt and batteries)

you make fun of the mecp but it doesnt lie or come up with their own hair brained stats that are worthless kind of like your engineering ways that you "figure your stuff out with yet noone uses it yet its better cause you say so!". also if you are so far "into this" why dont you know some more about the standards that manufacturers use? //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/laugh.gif.48439b2acf2cfca21620f01e7f77d1e4.gif

 

[Bolognablake 10+ year member]

I love it when people talk out of their *** with this mumbo jumbo fancy scientology terminology.

I know right? Where's Tom Cruise when you need him?

 

[audiolife 5,000+ posts]

I know right? Where's Tom Cruise when you need him?

its sorta like playing connct the dots with leaving out the weak points

 

[Thnking 10+ year member]

lol you are a riot...so in an average system with a 100 amp alt lets say it has a 1600 watt system are you trying to tell me during music the draw is so much at a constant that the alt couldnt keep up charging 2 batts??

I never discussed this.

The issue isn’t if an alternator can recharge multiple batteries based on load.

you bring up kinetik ..i used to work there funny thing is all the competitors bought their stuff (EVERYONE) and i am 100% positive that almost all get offers to run free batteries but dont...so what does that say when world class spl and sq guys use a product that they pay for over another that they probably can get for free?

You really are clueless on how the audio market functions.

i dont know how the hell you claim to say you know exactly how a charging system works. you totally by passed the basics (which is funny )and ripped into 1 area that doesnt mean sh1t because its not the whole problem. ........

LOL, and what areas didn’t I cover?

what are the issues with changing alts? longevity of the units, mechanically able to install them , plus knowing if you have the right parts to make it work with your car, costs....blah blah blah vs hooking up a propper agm cell in the back/trunk.

Anyone who has a day off and the ability to read can change an alt out.

Longevity is an issue with batteries and alternators.

Most alternators don’t need additional parts for an install.

if you have potential to draw alot more than what your alt puts out then of course get a bigger alt but it isnt nearly the necessity all the time. (im pretty sure the guys wanting to run 3000+ watts rms know they will need a bigger alt and batteries)

3000+watt systems = much lower average draw. Just as you mentioned above. Most people can get by with a H/O alternator.

you make fun of the mecp but it doesnt lie or come up with their own hair brained stats that are worthless kind of like your engineering ways that you "figure your stuff out with yet noone uses it yet its better cause you say so!".

I don’t make fun of the MECP. Their cert’s are for installers. Their certifications contain very little if any engineering. Someone saying they understand electrical systems because they have a MECP certification, is like someone saying they can build a house because they took a woodworking class.

also if you are so far "into this" why dont you know some more about the standards that manufacturers use? //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/laugh.gif.48439b2acf2cfca21620f01e7f77d1e4.gif

I know most of the standards, and the ones I don’t know are easily accessible online.

I don't see a point to your comments unless you have something else to contribute to how multiple batteries are a better solution or are needed when a properly sized alternator is installed. Everything you've mentioned so far has been refuted.

 

[audiolife 5,000+ posts]

i dont know how the market functions?you have no idea what you are talkin about .your sorry explanations on an auto electrical system have more holes in them than swiss cheese without the cheese /story. for a high output alt to function well it at least needs a VERY solid battery, and by the time its all said and done the extra battery is cheaper with alot less work and probably 2 to 3 times less problematic...its also dumb to upgrade the alt and not take advantage of a battery in back as it would lessen the voltage drop to the amps .

"I don’t make fun of the MECP. Their cert’s are for installers. Their certifications contain very little if any engineering. Someone saying they understand electrical systems because they have a MECP certification, is like someone saying they can build a house because they took a woodworking class."

actually what engineering is there in designing a good functioning system? its not like you are designing the parts used in the system..... i got my degree from purdue you got yours from??? school of hard knocks?

 

[Thnking 10+ year member]

i dont know how the market functions?you have no idea what you are talkin about .your sorry explanations on an auto electrical system have more holes in them than swiss cheese without the cheese /story.

And what are they.... I see no reference as to where I've been incorrect. And I've seen and commented on many areas where you have been incorrect.

for a high output alt to function well it at least needs a VERY solid battery, and by the time its all said and done the extra battery is cheaper with alot less work and probably 2 to 3 times less problematic...its also dumb to upgrade the alt and not take advantage of a battery in back as it would lessen the voltage drop to the amps .

You haven't proven or even remotely backed any of this up.

"I don’t make fun of the MECP. Their cert’s are for installers. Their certifications contain very little if any engineering. Someone saying they understand electrical systems because they have a MECP certification, is like someone saying they can build a house because they took a woodworking class."

actually what engineering is there in designing a good functioning system? its not like you are designing the parts used in the system..... i got my degree from purdue you got yours from??? school of hard knocks?

ASU, 3 of them actually. BS mechanical engineering, BS construction engineering, MS electrical engineering. Engineering isn't piecing together a functioning system, its understanding all of the physical and theoretical concepts behind them, and being able to use that knowledge in a theoretical or real world sense.

You really don't sound much older than a high school kid.

 

[audiolife 5,000+ posts]

how an alt works is no explenation on how a whole electrical system works as it only part of the system....anyone knows that...call me a high school kid as much as you like but like i said before its rather easy to shoot holes in what you say. the power making side of an electrical system is not a precise set up. it needs the battery . it has rather NASTY ripple effects tempararily over and under 14v it would cause HUGE flickering without the filtering of the battery. dont believe me meter it. it just gets really boring going over stuff with an engineer that is suppost to know how everything works in the real world yet doesnt. instead of talking with common sense you come out with the equation of how part of a system works...which is great but the real world doesnt have super conductors and there are real world effects ........ thats the part of your engineering i dont understand you ask people like werewolf, richard clark or david navone questions like this they tell you how it all works not just one itsy bitsy part and if you talk about part of something they know how it works with everything else and they do it in such a fashion that they dont make up their own specs.......

 

[Thnking 10+ year member]

how an alt works is no explenation on how a whole electrical system works as it only part of the system....anyone knows that...call me a high school kid as much as you like but like i said before its rather easy to shoot holes in what you say.

LOL, what holes… Every time YOU make a statement I disprove it.

the power making side of an electrical system is not a precise set up. it needs the battery . it has rather NASTY ripple effects tempararily over and under 14v it would cause HUGE flickering without the filtering of the battery. dont believe me meter it.

I suggest you measure it, you might learn something.

Unfiltered ripple (really old regulators/alternators) is definitely high (3V-6V), but you’ll never see an unfiltered output in any alternator/regulator made in the last 10+years. They all have filtering techniques to remove around 85-95% of the ripple. Typically it’s done by sampling the output with a pre-set phase signal. It’s pretty obvious you are simply regurgitating incorrect information you’ve heard somewhere or read somewhere.

Now-a-days ripple is under .5V without R-C of a battery. A .5V delta is improbable to cause flickering.

it just gets really boring going over stuff with an engineer that is suppost to know how everything works in the real world yet doesnt. instead of talking with common sense you come out with the equation of how part of a system works...which is great but the real world doesnt have super conductors and there are real world effects ........ thats the part of your engineering i dont understand you ask people like werewolf, richard clark or david navone questions like this they tell you how it all works not just one itsy bitsy part and if you talk about part of something they know how it works with everything else and they do it in such a fashion that they dont make up their own specs.......

I haven’t made up any specs, and I’m not trying to teach you anything. I’m answering questions and disproving your nonsense about the electrical system.

Everything I’m saying is comprised of common sense, you just don’t understand ut/don’t want to believe it because you’ve been sputtering how Kinetik is great and how everyone should add a 2nd or 3rd or 4th battery without any COMMON SENSE to back it up.

 

[audiolife 5,000+ posts]

lol i have already measured everything...where have i stated that anyone ever add 3-4 batteries without upgrading an alt ???i know people who have is all i ever brought up and their results were alot different than what YOU said. you have disproved nothing... another instance my father has 1400 watt system in his 00 expo with a 190 amp alty his duralast battery started to take a shit and wow dimming lights out the arse....funny thing is with factory alt and a second battery it was far more stable...... hmmm i wish i could just type shit on here like a keyboard comando while haveing done nothing..... not one time have i said alts dont work (you even had an alt manufacturer tell you that second batteries help more so than you give credit to) .... lol and when you were going on about your "battery specs" you were knowingly telling people to do a spec that was wrong anyway as it was how they figure RESERVE anyway then say low voltage doesnt kill amps...

 

[Daishi 10+ year member]

I have to agree with audiolife here my 2nd battery did stabilize voltage quite a bit. An alternator is just part of the electrical circuit if you dont have a battery hooked up voltage is NOT going to be stable. You have the battery their to stabilize voltage and to provide a backup of sorts. Adding a second battery WILL stabilize voltages as you are not taking power directly from the alternator instead you are drawing power from pretty much 1 LARGE battery and with that you have much less voltage drop and light dimmage.

 

[audiolife 5,000+ posts]

I have to agree with audiolife here my 2nd battery did stabilize voltage quite a bit. An alternator is just part of the electrical circuit if you dont have a battery hooked up voltage is NOT going to be stable. You have the battery their to stabilize voltage and to provide a backup of sorts. Adding a second battery WILL stabilize voltages as you are not taking power directly from the alternator instead you are drawing power from pretty much 1 LARGE battery and with that you have much less voltage drop and light dimmage.

to an extent yes but our friend here thinks everything is constant and instantanious lol

 

[jdawg 5,000+ posts]

MECP is a glorified installer degree.

This is true. I have met some installers who didnt know their *** from a hole in the ground. Study a book and you will pass. Not trying to piss off anyone here though.

 

[audiolife 5,000+ posts]

have an installer that cant get a 70 on 2 of the mecp parts then there is no way they should be installing anyway.....thats like saying a mechanic doesnt need to be certified....