First Setup- Wiring and Instalation Questions

[Boley Buster 10+ year member]

Hope, that is some phenomenal advice and exactally what I was looking for. The issue I predict that I will run into is careful and accurate carpet removal. I need to check to see if the "tracks" on the seat will also come out, if so there won't be an issue getting the wood down, if they don't then I may have some issues, since my amp is wider than the rails, but should stay underneath them when.

Okay, time for my dumb/noob question. When I remove the carpet, is it glued all around, or is it just secured at the edges? Also, how do I get the carpet back down after I've removed it? I'm all for routing the wires underneath it and your scheme seems like it could really accommodate it. I'd like to get the seats out, put the board in, and wire the power all on Saturday then I can save individual speaker installation until Sunday. In all honesty, I just don't know exact ally how to remove it easily.

I know the tweeter acoustically does best when raised to ear level, I actually took a course in acoustics last year so i know WAY too much theory about sound and vibrations. However, I was kind of thinking I'd put it inside in the old tweeter mounting hole since it should fit and this would leave alot less customization (and father angering steps) along the way.

I'm not terribly worried about the head unit. To be honest, I'd love to upgrade now that I know that there are larger units that fit the stock hole. In my nievity I didn't know that was an option, and now I've kind of already dropped a grand on the project and would like to wait to spend anymore cash. I'll probably take the easy route out and ask for it for Christmas since luckily I'm still in the "young enough" for Christmas category.

I'm fixin' to go take a look at the head unit, and **** around with the door panels and center console, I'll probably update again later this evening.

PS- Sorry about the diction. I'm a texan and it comes out in my speech lol.

 

[keep_hope_alive Premium Member]

i have been outmastered. good luck //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

you got the ball rolling and raised the bar. thank you for that. if not for your detailed posts i probably wouldn't have gone as far. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif we make a good team

 

[keep_hope_alive Premium Member]

the carpet is not glued or anything. it is held in place by the seat, console, and side trim, maybe a foot rest, kick panel, etc. just remove the plastic panels (clips/screws) and it just pulls back. for reference, i can remove the carpet in my Accord in about 30 minutes.

proper tweeter placement is the difference between poor sound and good sound. for now, put it where it is easy. then plan on experimenting with locations and moving it as a separate project down the road. i'm an acoustics engineer - it's awesome work.

the head unit is another easy upgrade later. you're doing it right, and have a great start.

 

[Boley Buster 10+ year member]

Alright, after some thought and debate I decided to go ahead and update the head unit while I'm here doing the rest of this work. Once I found out that they made the larger size head units that would look good, and finding out that they had 3 inputs (front, rear and sub) I was really down on myself for not doing more research and finding a good one. After looking on my go to sites where I ordered my other components (Sonic Electronix and Techtronics) and Crutchfield I was a little dismayed at the high prices. However, I did some amazon searching and found a great deal on Clarion Mobile CX501. Knowing that I also had my steering wheel controls I ordered a kit for that as well.

The second major development that I've had in the last day is after spending a little chunk of time and pain removing the door panels I was starting to get a little dismayed at installing it myself. I priced some other places last night and found a guy that could do it pretty cheaply in Dallas. However, I've been thinking about it all morning (whoops, sorry work you got put to the back burner) and I really think that while it would be difficult, I could definatly do this setup. A little side note here is that I've actually had 3 brain surgeries in the last year and a half and the last one left me with some nasty double vision that makes seeing things alot harder. Don't let me rain on the parade here, I'm still wanting to do this install myself so my plan is to give everything as good of a go as I can this saturday and sunday, and if things aren't working out to go ahead and pay to get it done.

Now that I've gone ahead and given you my novella, more questions!

More carpet concerns, what size board should I be putting under the carpet and from your experience will the carpet be able to stretch over the entire board? I'm just worried about the slits for the wires ripping when i stretch the fabric over the entire peice. Also, what length/size bolts are we talking to affix the board? I just need to make a trip to Home Depot later on and would like to pick them up.

Wiring-

How exactally do i go from amp to head unit. Does the center console come out? I could route it through the doors that just seems like a ton of trouble.

Now that I have the bass control on the head unit, I'm debating returning the bass control knob. However, i think that I could sneak it into the old AUX input in the center console since the head unit has its own front AUX port.

Also, I'm dumb. I went to look on the car and the tweeter slot in the door is right below the window, I think that it will be at least a start and hopefully a good final location.

 

[Boley Buster 10+ year member]

Alright, I did a little brainstorming and a little searching and had another question.

How bad of a person would I be to use some industrial strength velcro to secure the amps? As I said, I'm an engineer. I know Amp = Hot, and Hot =/= Glue being sticky (unless its hot glue!). However, I was thinking about mounting the amp to a board, and then covering the backside with velcro. I know that this isn't near as secure as the bolting method, I've just been spooked by some of the "Ahh I bolted into my gas line" stories. From my figuring, the weight of the amp plus the stickiness of the velcro could be enough since the entire thing is going in such a small enclosed space. This way it also has a boost over the ground in protection of possible spills/water issues. I may be crazy, in fact I've been told it many times. It would not offend me to hear it again in this setting.

 

[ColterDC 10+ year member]

Velcro would hold it, unless you plan on rolling your car a few times and in that case I doubt that your amp would be your primary concern.

As for being spooked about drilling into gas lines, etc. Just look under the vehicle before drilling. Been installing stuff for years and never once have I drilled into something I shouldn't have.

 

[keep_hope_alive Premium Member]

No Velcro. Bolt the board to the floor. 1/2 inch treated plywood. Carpet will fit over no problem. I will work on your questions in detail tonight.

 

[Boley Buster 10+ year member]

Just drill strait through? I'm a little still worried about hitting a line on the way but I'm sure I can check beforehand and not be a *******. Would I need a different drill bit, how thick is the sheet metal? My father will certainly kill me if he sees me do it, I'm just going to have to deal with that I suppose. Apparently my roommate did velcro to board underneath the carpet, then screwed into it. He was who suggested it to me. It looks like my speakers and sub may be lost in the world of shipping so I may just be doing amps and the head unit (that i ordered yesterday, you'd think the speakers would beat it...) this weekend. That wouldn't be the absolute worst case, since I'll already have the speaker wire as well do you think I'd be able to feed that through in the mean time by guesstimating and over budgeting wire? (I'm stunned that the word "guesstimating" was actually in the dictionary and not underlined in red)

 

[keep_hope_alive Premium Member]

velcro will not hold the amp. amplifier and ambient temp will cause the velcro to lose adhesion to the amp. the carpet isn't perfect for adhesion to the velcro. a short circuit from the amp moving could start a fire under your seat.

i would drill straight through. it's just a floor pan - the factory drills through often. just protect the bolt heads with silicone.

you could just use self-tapping sheet metal screws that were long enough, then seal the penetrations with silicone.

an alternative to drilling is to use an adhesive. silicone works wonders but stinks. there are other construction adhesives that are made for bonding wood to metal. simply glue the wood board down to the floor. then when you replace the carpet, the carpet will also help hold everything in place. find strength in layers.

all my amps are mounted with machine screws and all of my amp boards have t-nuts. i use t-nuts in all of my mounting boards and baffles. every amp, every speaker, is secured with machine screws into t-nuts. but i swap stuff often. drywall screws have no business in a car - but construction grade screws are ok.

wiring from head unit to amp: you'll have a blue remote turn-on wire that will connect to the aftermarket head unit blue/white wire and route to each amplifier remote turn on. you can daisy-chain this connection, so route to the first amp, then to the second amp. avoid splices whenever possible.

from head unit to amp is also your RCA cables. you'll need six channels - a four channel and a two channel, or 3 two channels. since the amps are under your seats, 2m (6 ft) may be plenty.

i would route wiring inside the center console. yes, it comes out. i recommend buying a $20 Haynes manual so you have instructions and wiring diagrams for the entire vehicle.

 

[keep_hope_alive Premium Member]

instead of guesstimating, we call them engineering assumptions. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

when laying out wiring for later installation, i try to mock-route the wire on the surface, then add 3-4 feet. wire is cheap.

check out my build log for some ideas:

http://forum.sounddomain.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1369669&page=1# Post1369669

 

[Boley Buster 10+ year member]

Good news! While only half of my techronics order came in, the half that did was my SR60s and SR65s! That way I can get the wiring to the speakers all done this weekend, and just feed all my excess wire to the trunk for the subs. I may not be using velcro for the boards, but I certainly plan on putting some on the base of the sub, so that there is additional support than the aircraft cable. Speaking of aircraft cable, is that a home depot item? I jokingly asked if I could snag some from work and apparently the government would not be cool with that lol. My tax dollars at work. At least they got me my free gift (that cost me 3 dollars in shipping, but totally worth it for a burnt orange cigarette lighter) in time.

I'm also just confirming this after rereading the whole thread and some of your earlier responses. Since my new head unit has 3 dedicated outputs I'll be doing the rears on the rear, the fronts on the front, and the sub on the sub correct? None of this sub/front on the front right?

As for drilling (can't you see how concerned I'm about it with my endless questioning) I think I'm just going to go two corners to minimize hole drilling. Do you think that'll be alright? I'll drop by home depot after work tomorrow and pick up some velcro for the sub, and the composite board and hopefully I'll be able to get a good chunk of this done on Saturday.

[ Addressed by hope, I may consider silicone, but TBH that leaves a worse sticky residue than 4 holes. I'm thinking I could either pre drill, or use self tapping screws (I entered literally 4,000 self tapping screws into a spreadsheet the other day, i can't believe I didn't think of them) after pre-drilling the boards. I'm leaning towards going with 4 self tapping screws on each board. Would a silicone seal be sufficient on the other side instead of a nut? I'm also an avid saltwater aquarist, i have TONS of silicone laying around]

A couple more topics for y'all. Here are the specs on my two amp kits.

Sub Kit-

17 ft. of 4 Gauge blue power cable

3 ft. 4 Gauge black ground cable

17 ft. Neon blue series RCA cable

16 ft. of Speaker wire

17 ft. of 18 Gauge blue remote turn-on wire

6 ft. of Split loom tubing

1 AGU Fuse Holder

60 AGU Fuse

All Necessary Hardware for Installation

4 Channel Kit-

20ft(6.1m) Blue 4AWG power wire

3ft(0.9m) Black 4AWG ground wire

20ft(6.1m) Silver 18AWG remote lead wire

16.4(5m) Blue, black, and gray 4 Channel RCA cable

60ft(18.2m) Blue and gray 16AWG speaker cable

1 Kicker 09FHS Fuse holder with 100 amp AFS fuse

Black rubber firewall grommet

2 4AWG Spade terminals

5 16AWG Spade terminals

4 Female quick disconnect connectors

Black zip ties

Red butt connector.

First of all, pardon my stupidity in the following statements, I am a noob remember. So I've guessed that the "remote wire" is to connect the amp right, or is this unnecessary since my amps are auto start? So what exactally are the RCA cables going to, the the actual speakers themselves, i thought that was the speaker wire? Will I need to spice that to the speaker wire or something, or is that going to the head unit? So I'm gathering that I've got about 16 ft of wire dedicated to the sub. That seems like plenty enough to me, especially since i'm basically going strait back to it. 60 ft of speaker cable. I hope that's enough, if not will changing brands be a big deal on the last lead?

[- Answered by HOPE. RCA cables from amp --> head unit; remote cables also amp --> head unit]

While we're on the topic of wires here is my second question. Which way do you think I should orient the wires coming out of the amplifier? I'm leaning towards having them face towards the door (meaning that the outputs are closest to the door as opposed to the console). At first I was a little worried for their safety going this way with the door opening and people getting in, but a scarier thought is someone spilling liquid down the side of the console and getting the wires that way. I guess its not a huge issue since they'll be under the carpet but its worth thinking about for sure.

Now, I do have 2 power wires. Would it really be a hassle or a serious inconvenience to just wire them both up? I know its two holes in the firewall, and previously I'd been afraid of drilling but I'd hate to have to cut one of them up to splice it in, and I hate cutting/messing with power wires when I can avoid it.

Lastly (yes I'll shut up soon, I promise), I'm still a little concerned on how I'm going to go from the amp --> head unit. I suspect that there would be a way to do this through/under the center console, but would i just feed a wire up from beneath the seats to get in there? Or do I have to go all the way around with it through the door ect. (terrible way to start a sentence. My mother the grammar nazi is crying somewhere). I found this great video earlier today I thought I would share with y'all, and I'm going to watch it with sound later on tonight to get some tips. ‪How To Install A Head Unit And Speakers Step By Step‬‏ - YouTube.

As always, thanks for reading and putting up with my long winded excited walls of text.

Willis

[ hope responded while I was typing this up, so some of my wiring questions are superflous, but I figured I would keep them in the body of text so I would remember their responses. I did hide some more questions in those edits for those keeping score at home. Thanks again hope!]

 

[keep_hope_alive Premium Member]

i think a wiring diagram will answer most of your questions. i can develop one for you with my suggested wire routing.

if you put a board under the carpet, i'd leave it even after you pull the amp. so don't worry about removing it for another buyer - they may see it as a bonus or they'll never know/care. silicone is your friend for sealing holes and preventing water ingress/rust.

 

[Boley Buster 10+ year member]

Now that I know I can go the self tapping route, and avoid drilling I'm not really that worried about putting it down. I'm just going to have to figure out what size screw to use. I will still predrill the board itself, I'm thinking about 1.5" would be long enough, but 1.25" or 1" might work and eliminate a large screw from sticking out under my car. I'd also think I wouldn't want the entire thing threaded, and would want a smooth portion at the back half that will be at the end. I guess it wouldn't matter too much now that I'm thinking about it. I plan on stopping by home depot after work to pick up the board and screws so I won't have to go do it tomorrow.

Another thought, how difficult is removing the existing speaker wire? I hadn't really thought on that, but I'd bet its not too bad since I can just clip most of it as I go along and remove it section by section.

 

[Boley Buster 10+ year member]

Well, my pops is still fuming about the entire project, so I think I'm going to go with some silicon to the board, and some velhro on top of that. As we've said, strength in layers. I'll likely get a good deal of work done, with the getting the head unit install, wiring and speaker placement, and head unit install done. I've got sunday too, so there isn't a huge rush or anything. I plan on taking my time and making sure its done right. I'll head over to home depot and see what their situation on distro blocks is. I'm still foggy on exactally whats going on behind the head unit, and how I'm going to get the power through there and to the amps, not to mention the amps to the head unit.

 

[keep_hope_alive Premium Member]

no velcro is needed if you can screw the amp to the board. silicone works great.

home depot won't have a distro block. you need to find a car audio shop.

i have a busy saturday, but sunday we can talk about your vehicle.

don't remove factory wiring. leave that in place and try not to cut any of it.