enclosures for mids

[xtremekustomz 10+ year member]

That's a very good point. You can't expect world class sound and performance on 4th grade car audio education. Not saying that to be offensive, but put the information in the contex of the person using it!
I personally love to read what Scott B has to say because he doesn't beat around the bush and will translate what his ears and experience have taught him. But, he does it in a civil matter and doesn't go down the arrogant *** route. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/fro.gif.c695f1f814b01c4ad99fe7f8cccadd29.gif

I was actually being serious when I was asking the question about what I was wrong about. I'm hoping that you aren't thinking that I'm trying to start an argument or anything like that or being "arrogant". I'm just speaking from my personal experience with large door mounted midrange drivers. I talked to Scott B. at the beginning of the year when I started my build and told him about the problem I was having with my midbass in the door and about it playing up to 900hz. Here is the "conversation"

Thanks Scott, I appreciate the prompt reply. I do have a

question for you. It isn't really on the subject of Hybrid Audio but I hope

you can help me out. I've got a 2000 Chevrolet Silverado truck. I have

the Dynaudio System 360 in it which consists of an 8" midbass (50

hz-900hz) 3" midrange (900hz-4500hz) and a 1.1" tweeter (4500hz up). I have

the midrange and the tweeter in the kick panel and the midbass in the

doors. My problem is that on certain things, my soundstage is pulled down

to even with the top of the door. I have been told that it is because

the frequency is too high on the midbass in the door and it tends to be

pulled down. I have a few options and wanted to know what you think

about it. I can either mount the midbass in the floor or either in the

kick panel. Doing the kick panel will require a little more work I think

because of the air space requirements.

Ah yes, that is in fact why you have a problem in the midrange

frequencies, it's because of the midbass location. Putting the midbass as

physically close as possible to the midrange will help immensely. If you

can even put them on the same plane as the midrange, even better. But if not,

get them close. Because of the dispersion pattern of the midbass, and at

the frequencies you're asking it to play, aiming is not super

critical, but is at the very least important. Everything below around 1,000 Hz is

time dominant, so getting them down there will help with imaging quite a bit.

I'd spend the extra time and get them angled just right in each kick panel,

verses in the floor, because a phenomenon might occur that the

images will wander left to right on male vocals if the midbass is in the

center of the floor...so as the male vocalist's pitch changes from high to

low, for example, his voice will wander between the two speakers. This is

precisely why we built a midrange that can play to 200 Hz rather eaily, so

placement of the midbass is not nearly as critical.

Scott

Well..I think I have decided to build a dash. I'm planning on

getting my old dash out within the next few weeks and seeing what room I

have to work with. I want to keep my ac and defroster because I will

still be driving the truck alot. In the case that I am building a new dash,

would I get better overall results from placing the speakers in the

dash? What I have been thinking about doing maybe is still doing the

midbass in the kick panel area but taking the midrange and tweeter and

putting them in the dash or either just the midrange in the dash and

tweeter on the A pillar. I hate to go through all the trouble of building a

dash and not have it used for part of my sound. My thoughts on the dash

are to have the speakers as far away as possible from the listener.

Probably having a grille that covers up the parts of the dash where the

speakers are so you can't see them. One good thing about the midrange is

that it is completely closed off so there is no need for an

enclosure. Your thoughs on doing any of this? I just want to have

the best sound possible. I will also be using the Alpine H701 processor

so I will have alot of control with everything as well as being able

to use an amp per speaker set. 1 for midbass, 1 for midrange, and 1 for

tweeter.

This sounds like a great idea, and I am all for it. I can't tell you where

the speakers will need to go, but having the ability to put them anywhere is

a big plus. My suggestion is to pop the dash off and look around under

there. The locations will become more obvioous once you see what resides

below the dash cover. Keeping the AC and defroster shouldn't be a problem, especially with such small speakers for the front stage. And yes, the midbass in the kicks is a solid move. Looking forward to hearing how this goes. Send photos and ideas and I'll help you decide on a few preliminary spots for the mids and

tweeters to go.

Scott

I'm not using the dyn md140 or the md100's that came with the set in my truck right now. I even moved the md140 and tweet right beside the midbass and still had a problem with the stage lowering. I tried my hardest (without pulling the ac and heater out) to get my truck to image well from both seats but I couldn't get the pathlengths close enough so I made it a 1 seater. The next one I do will be a 2 seater but it definately won't be a daily driver.

And I will also add, based on my experience with the Scans IB, is that somehow I got very little door resonance. You can see from the pics how much mass loading is there....not a ton, but enough. And still I was shocked how my doors hung in there. Not only that, but there was really no boominess on the top nor any muddyness on the bottom. Just not a lot of snap and and raw impact that feels like a sledge hammer to the sternum. BUT, my oh my...... Smooooooooth and loooooooow....kind of like having a home theater system in your car, actually. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

I have nothing at all against the Scan drivers. My main concern was putting them in the door and having water get on them. Like I said, I am going to be using them on my next install. I've heard alot of great things about those drivers. I almost ordered some of the 4's to use for this install but I was already spent out LOL

For the first time EVER, I honestly could not locate my sub in the rear of the car...even dring heavy bass tracks that used to pull toward the rear. I attribute this to being able to cross these drivers over so low (and using the best sub in the world //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif). I could easly drop the HP down to 40hz, but then found that my stage seemed to sink to an undesirable level.

I love not hearing bass coming from the rear of a vehicle. I haven't heard many that you couldn't tell at some point. I've got my sub in the front now //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

I'm currently attempting 8's in the doors and if I cannot get them to work, back to the Scan's I go!! //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/greedy.gif.5a53e6246569d7ab79867170f3b06629.gif

What 8 are you trying to use?

 

[FoxPro5 5,000+ posts]

I was actually being serious when I was asking the question about what I was wrong about. I'm hoping that you aren't thinking that I'm trying to start an argument or anything like that or being "arrogant".

No, I wasn't referring to you as being arrogant man. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif I was speaking about some competitors that are, unfortunately.

And your convo with Scott exemplifies my whole point exactly. I had the L3's for awhile and he provides excellent customer support for his products....and I didn't even buy them from Hybrid.

It sounds like both you and I are willing to take those extra steps needed to get the best out of our vehicles. But, I don't think the OP is in that postition. Maybe so? He didn't really say.

I love not hearing bass coming from the rear of a vehicle. I haven't heard many that you couldn't tell at some point. I've got my sub in the front now //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

It's my personal barometer to see how well I've tuned the car. Odly enough, with my midbass out at the moment and the midranges playing down to 200hz with a steep slope and the sub playing up to 125hz...I still get very decent up front impact and realism. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/naughty.gif.94359f346c0f1259df8038d60b41863e.gif

What 8 are you trying to use?

Lotus, of course. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/graduate.gif.d982460be9f153bb54e5d4cb744f6ae8.gif

 

[genxx 10+ year member]

xtremekustomz- I think me and you are referring to alot of the same stuff. I am much like you. I do not know everything only things I have tried. I agree the next car that I work on will be kicks with the mid-bass in the doors for a 3-way. I do prefer kicks if you are going all out. For the daily driver most guys are just not going to go that far with it.

I hope no one took what I was saying about being a competitor as being arrogant. Nor was I ever anywhere near as good as any of the big boys or really serious competitors. I did it for fun for a few years nothing more. I have not been around any of it for about 6 years. I have no clue what the standards are now or how anything is judged any more. I just do it as a hobby now. I only put it out there that I had competed because it seemed xtremekustomz was in that scene. So was just trying to view it from a competitors view.

FoxPro-Lotus FTW. I miss my Lotus 8's. I cannot believe I sold them and wish I had them back.

 

[FoxPro5 5,000+ posts]

FoxPro-Lotus FTW. I miss my Lotus 8's. I cannot believe I sold them and wish I had them back.

Hehe, these WERE yours. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif A quick review. The Assman (Peter) originally bought them from a guy on ebay (who was from MN, ironically). Used them for a bit and then sold them to you. You sold them to Robert and then I bought them from him. Not sure if either of you actually installed them, but my guess is that you didn't. Either way, the Lotus's are back home and on the TEAM where they belong. They just had a brief tour around the US .... //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/laugh.gif.48439b2acf2cfca21620f01e7f77d1e4.gif

 

[genxx 10+ year member]

Yep thats sounds about right. I stared at them on R&R from the desert. I tested them and that was it. I had to sell them because I need cash to pick up several things I needed more. I was trying to come up with the cash to buy them back but it just was not in the cards.LMAO

You will put them to good use and get the best out of them. I wonder if Peter ever wishes he had them back. He switched to the Rainbow briefly IIRC but I think he changed them out already.

Have to give a really good review on here and please on DIYMA after you get them all installed. A comparison the Scan-Rev would be awsome. Please

 

[FoxPro5 5,000+ posts]

Yep thats sounds about right. I stared at them on R&R from the desert. I tested them and that was it. I had to sell them because I need cash to pick up several things I needed more. I was trying to come up with the cash to buy them back but it just was not in the cards.LMAO
You will put them to good use and get the best out of them. I wonder if Peter ever wishes he had them back. He switched to the Rainbow briefly IIRC but I think he changed them out already.

Have to give a really good review on here and please on DIYMA after you get them all installed. A comparison the Scan-Rev would be awsome. Please

Right on. I'm in the build process right now. I'll be sure to make several comparisons and do a nice review on them. But I don't really post here...just saw this tread on DIY and felt the need to help this guy. You can see my build progress and look for my review on EMSQ if you'd like.