Dsp, a must have?

[spokey9]

Guess there's goes my last reason not buy more stereo equipment

 

[Jimi77 5,000+ posts]

You don't need an RTA to tune. TBH, I found the RTA was holding me back and ******* up more time that it was worth. My RTA has been gathering dust for years. You can RTA by ear. Just get 1/3rd octave banded pink noise and run thru the tracks. Your ears will tell you when a band increases/decreases in output. Sine sweeps are great for tuning by ear too. If your ears can't hear the difference but it shows up on an RTA, does it matter???

IMHO, it's more about having/using a methodology to get the tuning right. Deal with crossovers and phase first. Then move on to EQ. I had long @$$ write up on how to tune with a DAP on CAF years ago, but one day I logged onto CAF and it was gone.

 

[CertifiedHoodClassic]

You running it now? If yes, what is your max input voltage????? I also have the Dayton dsp-408 but have not fired it up as of yet.

Yeah I'm using it. It's in a build that's not done yet (only the front stage is done). I have it connected to an alpine ilx-407 which has 4V preouts

That's the main I've been looking at. You have any noise issues? I've seen some complaints about that on the daytons.

I don't have noise. I'm not even sure if I have one of the newer ones or not since I bought mine used. I just happened to see one on in decent shape on ebay when I was looking for one. I do have a separate ground for it, that might be why mine works fine

 

[ThxOne Premium Member]

Yeah I'm using it. It's in a build that's not done yet (only the front stage is done). I have it connected to an alpine ilx-407 which has 4V preouts

I don't have noise. I'm not even sure if I have one of the newer ones or not since I bought mine used. I just happened to see one on in decent shape on ebay when I was looking for one. I do have a separate ground for it, that might be why mine works fine

Yeah, my eXcelon is 4v out at max volume undistorted. Hmmm, I hope it works and doesn't cause compression dropping down to 2.5v. Thanks!!

 

[SlugButter]

You don't need an RTA to tune. TBH, I found the RTA was holding me back and ******* up more time that it was worth. My RTA has been gathering dust for years. You can RTA by ear. Just get 1/3rd octave banded pink noise and run thru the tracks. Your ears will tell you when a band increases/decreases in output. Sine sweeps are great for tuning by ear too. If your ears can't hear the difference but it shows up on an RTA, does it matter???

IMHO, it's more about having/using a methodology to get the tuning right. Deal with crossovers and phase first. Then move on to EQ. I had long @$$ write up on how to tune with a DAP on CAF years ago, but one day I logged onto CAF and it was gone.

Do you use the graphic EQ or parametric EQ? I can use the graphic EQ and adjust the slopes on both ends by ear, but I totally screwed it up trying to use the parametric EQ by ear and had to reset it.

 

[ThxOne Premium Member]

Do you use the graphic EQ or parametric EQ? I can use the graphic EQ and adjust the slopes on both ends by ear, but I totally screwed it up trying to use the parametric EQ by ear and had to reset it.

If you have an RTA or a mic and REW so you can see the pink noise you can find a dip or peak and select exactly the frequency that is dipped or peaking with the parametric eq and adjust it... the "Q" can be adjusted too so that you can narrow the range of the frequency you are adjusting to get super precise or widen the "Q" to include some frequencies to the left and right to broaden the adjustment, less precise.

 

[audiobaun 5,000+ posts]

Guess there's goes my last reason not buy more stereo equipment

Its always temporary. Tomorrow you will end up buying a whole new front stage you really dont need

 

[ThxOne Premium Member]

DSP = Rabbit Hole

 

[Jimi77 5,000+ posts]

DSP = Rabbit Hole

It certainly can be. You have to a methodology to deal with all the potential issues or you'll never get it right. Add in an RTA and it gets even more time consuming and frustrating.

 

[SlugButter]

If you have an RTA or a mic and REW so you can see the pink noise you can find a dip or peak and select exactly the frequency that is dipped or peaking with the parametric eq and adjust it... the "Q" can be adjusted too so that you can narrow the range of the frequency you are adjusting to get super precise or widen the "Q" to include some frequencies to the left and right to broaden the adjustment, less precise.

Yeah. I tried to do it by ear with no RTA using the parametric, but it was a dismal failure. My DSP also has a 12 band graphic that allows me to adjust Q, which I screw around with by ear. I’ll probably just keep on fiddling with that.

 

[Jimi77 5,000+ posts]

Yeah. I tried to do it by ear with no RTA using the parametric, but it was a dismal failure. My DSP also has a 12 band graphic that allows me to adjust Q, which I screw around with by ear. I’ll probably just keep on fiddling with that.

You don't need an RTA. You need test tracks. In particular you need a 20hz-20khz sine sweep and you'll hear the peaks and valley's in the response curve. You also need 1/3 octave banded pink noise. You play each 1/3rd octave track and adjust the corresponding EQ control to flatten the response. Always cut frequencies first and avoid boosting more than +3bd.

If you have a valley that doesn't respond well to boosting, then you either have a phase issues (ie the tweeter and midbass cancelling each other out at the crossover frequency) or a null caused by reflections, location or angle.

 

[Clifff150 10+ year member]

You don’t need an RTA but they sure are helpful

 

[ThxOne Premium Member]

You don't need an RTA. You need test tracks. In particular you need a 20hz-20khz sine sweep and you'll hear the peaks and valley's in the response curve. You also need 1/3 octave banded pink noise. You play each 1/3rd octave track and adjust the corresponding EQ control to flatten the response. Always cut frequencies first and avoid boosting more than +3bd.

If you have a valley that doesn't respond well to boosting, then you either have a phase issues (ie the tweeter and midbass cancelling each other out at the crossover frequency) or a null caused by reflections, location or angle.

So picture me talking with an open mouth, with food in it... So you are saying to a person curious about DSP's they should rely on the skills one might have that 20+ years of being an audio engineer would give you, tune the system by ear and not use the tools that were invented to make that job not only easier but more accurate?

 

[audiobaun 5,000+ posts]

Man.. All this information and Hoops to go through just to run and tune a DSP seems like a lot of time invested. Id prob rack up over 200k on a vehicle before even getting close to getting it tuned to my liking . I think Ill stick with my aftermarket HUs and an indash Pre Amp EQ

 

[ThxOne Premium Member]

Man.. All this information and Hoops to go through just to run and tune a DSP seems like a lot of time invested. Id prob rack up over 200k on a vehicle before even getting close to getting it tuned to my liking . I think Ill stick with my aftermarket HUs and an indash Pre Amp EQ

It's just fine tuning really. I used to listen to music in stereo. Now, in a car, if the music isn't time delayed to me in the drivers seat it just sounds weird. Like literally the left speakers are just too loud. My Kenwood eXcelon is doing a fine job time aligning to me for now and the built in speaker sizes selection and crossovers are decent. Honestly, I think this is a great way to get familiar with using a DSP is by using a head units built in DSP.