Critique my system and suggest some speakers...

[Jandry]

New to the forums in terms of posting, but ive learned a lot here over the last few weeks reading as much as possible. I have researched so much, read so many conflicting accounts of various speakers, etc etc that im starting to get frustrated. I understand the subjectivity involved, but could use a push in the right direction to narrow the field //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

I am pretty broke in college right now, but I have begun to put some money away for a system in my truck (2002 Ford Ranger ext cab). My initial system ideas are pretty modest:

HU: Pioneer DEH-80PRS (for TA and going active)

Amp: Alpine PDR-F50 (85wrms x4 @ 4ohm; 250wrms bridged 4 ohm stable)

Speakers: ?? (Only going for front stage- doubt ill try rear fill)

Sub: Pioneer TSSWX2502 (10" downfiring compact 100-300wrms) [this is a small pickup and I want to keep usable space- if another compact sub will fit in that enclosure, ill buy the enclosure separate and install it- .35c.ft fyi.)

As I am an electrician by trade, I have no issue setting this all up myself and wont have any labor costs.

Initially I will be driving the sub with the "rear" channels of the amp bridged; I figure 250 wrms (or thereabouts- I will use an oscope to ensure I dont push it into clipping) should give me decent bass considering the sub would be right behind my seat. Eventually, I will buy a mono amp and move on to my ultimate goal: active.

The speakers have been the hardest part to settle on. If I had my preference, I would go with a solid coaxial or components that can be mounted as coaxial- this is a stealth install. Heres what im looking for in a speaker:

1) Midbass (80-500hz)

2) Clean midrange and soft tweeters (silk preferably?)

3) More midbass

Music with a nasty raspy distorted electric guitar gets my blood flowing. From what I've read, a speaker with great 80-500hz will give me this (and of course dynamatting and sealing the door which I will do thoroughly). I am currently looking at the following: HAT Imagine 6.5, JL Audio C3 650x. I really dont want to have tweeters visible, but I've considering breaking that rule to get the JBL P660c. I do want a speaker where the passive crossovers arent horrific- it might take me a while to get the mono amp. This is one thing that makes me hesitate about the Imagines- I read that the crossover ***** until you go active.

Eventually, I will wire the tweeters and woofers through the PDR-F50 and the sub off a mono amp (PDR-M50 probably) all controlled by the DEH-80PRS running active. I understand the various crossover ranges, etc. Anyways, ill ask you these questions:

1) Any other speakers with solid mids and highs while having killer midbass? Preferably coaxial but I'm open to considering components. I know they sound better... Maybe give me a coax and comp suggestion?

2) While I understand it depends quite a bit on speaker sensitivity, how many watts should I have in my front stage vs my sub stage? Im thinking I should run about 75wmrs speakers in the front stage to match the 250wrms-300wrms in my sub stage. I dont want to overpower with the mids, though im not a basshead either.

3) Ive seen nice speakers that are in the 100wrms and higher range, but I shy away from them because I figure ill either not have enough amp to get good sound out of them, or (in the case of the P660c's since theyre 2 ohm) that ill overpower my sub to where I lose balance.

Music: heavy metal (old school Metallica, Slayer, Megadeth, Iced Earth, etc), rock, trance, classic rock, classical (especially anything with a cello). Country and oldies every so often.. I dont listen to music ear-destroyingly loud- every so often I like it just below that though //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

Budget on speakers: $2-- to $400? Im not even sure I can do $400, but ill take a look at them. Give me a list of ones you think would fit my truck/amp/music/budget, and ill find a store that has what you recommend and listen myself. Ive never dealt with audio, so all of the above is what I've gathered online- im open to any advice.

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[joom 10+ year member]

The hat imagines run mounted low in a sealed door on 75-100 watts are kick azz. If you separate the tweeter from the mid and mount the tweeter high in the door it's a bit much. If you went active though you could tame the tweeter output as you probably know. I ran a setup like this for awhile imagines on about 100 watts and an idmax 12 on about 500 fed from a 80prs. It was a pretty satisfying setup. Lots of good speaker choices out there.

 

[Jandry]

The hat imagines run mounted low in a sealed door on 75-100 watts are kick azz. If you separate the tweeter from the mid and mount the tweeter high in the door it's a bit much. If you went active though you could tame the tweeter output as you probably know. I ran a setup like this for awhile imagines on about 100 watts and an idmax 12 on about 500 fed from a 80prs. It was a pretty satisfying setup. Lots of good speaker choices out there.

The speaker mounts are pretty high up on the Ranger's doors, so we'll see how it works out. Usually this is good as it helps the tweeters on a coax carry better, but with the Imagines it might make them too bright until I can go active. I suppose I could use the EQ in the 80prs to tune out the highs, within reason at least.

There are indeed a lot of good speakers- I suppose in this price range I cant go wrong. I see mentions of many lacking midbass specifically, but that is so dependent on whether theyve sealed the door right, etc.

Im going to try and find the hat imagines and the c3's around my area- if I like the C3s close to as much, ill prolly go with them since the crossovers seem to make the tweeter not as bright. If anyone else stumbles on this thread and has a suggestion, let me know //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

 

[Jeffdachef 5,000+ posts]

for midbass, switch out the amp to a nice class ab one. Q4-90

Go with the JBLs or HAT. Jls dont sound that good until you get to the C5 series. Dont worry about the speakers overpowering the subs, there is a thing called a gain knob, proper tuning via making cuts at the EQ and level adjustments will net you a balanced system.

In the future, you can always add a 2 channel active capable amp attempt a 3 way active front stage by using the crossovers on the amp rather than the head unit and you can just add a dedicated midbass driver.

 

[Jduane]

Start slow, 1 at a time. And feel it out before you add

Start with the basics elimate road noise deaden the vehicle, u can use an old blanket to dampen. your a sparky grab some carpet underpayment, wire , connectors, dielectric greese and every thing you can from the site. If using amp, power and ground will be easy With the ranger you want something you can remove and add to future vehicles.

 

[Jeffdachef 5,000+ posts]

yeah skip all that stuff^ and use the proper material called mass loaded vinyl and decouple it with closed cell foam.

 

[keep_hope_alive Premium Member]

for MLV, CCF, absorption, etc. you can see my build logs (links in sig).

spend the time treating the front doors properly and you will find what you seek.

your equipment plans are fine. I agree HAT Imagine series is a nice sounding speaker in properly treated doors or kicks. they are also a nice speaker to run active with since they only include a simple crossover mounted to the woofer.

 

[Jandry]

for midbass, switch out the amp to a nice class ab one. Q4-90Go with the JBLs or HAT. Jls dont sound that good until you get to the C5 series. Dont worry about the speakers overpowering the subs, there is a thing called a gain knob, proper tuning via making cuts at the EQ and level adjustments will net you a balanced system.

In the future, you can always add a 2 channel active capable amp attempt a 3 way active front stage by using the crossovers on the amp rather than the head unit and you can just add a dedicated midbass driver.

Ok, ill cut the c3 series from my list. I had no idea that class a/b amps were better for midbass- from reading it seems the consensus is the damping results in better midbass? I have come to realize that class D have only even become viable for mids and highs in the last few years.. I thought that the main issue with class D's was the noise introduced due to being digital, and that this had been greatly reduced as the newer tech made the noise only really audible in frequency ranges beyond the human range of hearing.

The only issue I have is where to put that amp. It wouldnt fit under my seats, so my only option would be to mount it on top of the sub box. I wonder if any of these a/b amps can be mounted vertically? I have a great spot where the drop seat used to be- I could install a computer fan to direct air out (since id be hiding the amp with a cover).

Start slow, 1 at a time. And feel it out before you addStart with the basics elimate road noise deaden the vehicle, u can use an old blanket to dampen. your a sparky grab some carpet underpayment, wire , connectors, dielectric greese and every thing you can from the site. If using amp, power and ground will be easy With the ranger you want something you can remove and add to future vehicles.

Yeah, ill be doing all the tricks I use when doing electrical on a vehicle. I dont rig anything- I solder, shrink tube, grease where necessary, etc. No shortcuts on my part..

yeah skip all that stuff^ and use the proper material called mass loaded vinyl and decouple it with closed cell foam.

Never heard of it- Ill make sure to check it out. I am going to start a thread on one of the ranger forums and see if I can get sage advice for the door prep/vehicle dynamatting part. Ive helped a few guys wire stereos (they needed the electrical help), and I have found that the best sounding setups (by far) were the ones where the doors were sealed and the car was properly deadened.

for MLV, CCF, absorption, etc. you can see my build logs (links in sig).
spend the time treating the front doors properly and you will find what you seek.

your equipment plans are fine. I agree HAT Imagine series is a nice sounding speaker in properly treated doors or kicks. they are also a nice speaker to run active with since they only include a simple crossover mounted to the woofer.

Another vote for the Imagines. What I need to do now is see if I can find a place that has them. The biggest thing that concerns me is whether they will fit in my door with the tweeter mounted coaxial. Ford has the 5x7 speakers, so ill have to fabricate an adapter from mdf board- this is no issue except it pushes the speaker out, and the door panel is already close. I might have to just say to hell with stealth and mount the tweeters in the door panel.

This is my issue- if I go with a class a/b amp on a sub in the back and tweeters in the door, Im sort of making it obvious I have money in the system. My original goal was to run a system as good as possible while keeping it relatively hidden. I know the JL C5's will fit- they can be run active, they have great passives in the interim, and they are supposed to have soft tweeters- theyre also $500 //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/frown.gif.a3531fa0534503350665a1e957861287.gif If I cant stuff the imagines in, I could just wait longer and go for the C5s..

Anyways, great advice here and ill take it to the bank. Gonna go find a place that has Imagines and see what I can do. Thanks //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

 

[keep_hope_alive Premium Member]

don't run coaxial, the Imagine tweeter can be removed and located separately. a 5x7 factory is a concern with a 6.5 speaker - because you won't be able to get the woofer to seal to the door panel without a lot of extra effort. a 5.25" component set would probably sound better and have more midbass simply due to better seals.

 

[Jandry]

don't run coaxial, the Imagine tweeter can be removed and located separately. a 5x7 factory is a concern with a 6.5 speaker - because you won't be able to get the woofer to seal to the door panel without a lot of extra effort. a 5.25" component set would probably sound better and have more midbass simply due to better seals.

Thanks for the info. In light of all this, maybe I should just wait and get the JL C5's. I want the surface area of 6.5/5x7 for better midbass, while I know that sealing and deadening is more important than the speaker itself (mostly). They have the C5's in 5x7 so..

Anyways, that diagram helps. I will prolly go ahead and deaden the doors and seal off the holes in prep for the speakers when I do get them.

 

[keep_hope_alive Premium Member]

in this build i mated a 6.5 to a 6x9 hole. you can see that effort

http://www.caraudio.com/forums/car-audio-build-logs-cars-trucks-suvs/611961-2002-camry-basic-sq-khas-wife.html

 

[Jandry]

in this build i mated a 6.5 to a 6x9 hole. you can see that efforthttp://www.caraudio.com/forums/car-audio-build-logs-cars-trucks-suvs/611961-2002-camry-basic-sq-khas-wife.html

I suppose that would be a pain for some, but it doesnt look all that bad to me; mostly just looks like it will be time consuming, but I enjoy projects like that. The biggest issue in my case is I believe the speaker bolts directly to the door (no mounting adapter like the camry has). So, Id need to create an mdf adapter and then work on sealing and all that.

At this point, my only option is to either do that or wait until I can get C5s which will bolt directly in (not counting deadening and sealing door, and creating a seal to the door panel). Ill prolly go ahead and get a 6.5 setup that way I have more flexibility in the future.

Thanks for the build link- that gives me a good idea of what Ill need to do in my case //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

 

[keep_hope_alive Premium Member]

the build links in my sig for the 2001 Accord show me building custom adapters out of MDF and making seals from scratch.