Could use a little guidance for a budget system in my boring Honda. First post ever.

[DMoneyTT]

Hi everyone. This is my first post, so I'll try to keep on task. I have a reasonable amount of experience with car audio (from when I had more time and money), but I could use some direction with my new (to me) daily driver/beater. It is a 1998 Civic EX. Boring, slow, and practical. Yuck. I planned on just driving it and doing maintenance and nothing else, but the factory stereo was barely functioning, so I yanked it out and put in really budget gear from reputable manufacturers. Here's what I put in:

Head Unit: JVC KD-R320 50x4 Max (20x4 RMS)

Front Speakers: Pioneer TS-G1644R 6.5" 2-way coaxials (40 watts RMS max)

Rear Speakers: Pioneer TS-G6943R 6''X9" 2-way coaxials (35 watts RMS max)

Unfortunately, there was substantially less low-range response than I expected. My father's bone-stock 95 Camry sound system sounds like an SPL champ compared to this. So, I installed a small sub. I wanted to avoid adding weight and losing trunk space, but I already had the box, sub, and amp from my old 4-Runner.

Sub: JL Audio 10wxv2 in a ported enclosure

Amp: Kenwood KAC-5203 350 watts (150x1 RMS bridged)

I had to turn down the amplifier gain and head unit subwoofer level to the lowest settings or it overpowered the door speakers by a substantial amount. The door and deck speakers just lack the punch to keep up, especially once the volume is increased.

This is where I hope to benefit from the experience and knowledge of the members of this forum.

What would be the most cost-effective method to improve the sound in the car?

Would sealing and sound deadening the doors make an appreciable difference?

Is the head unit too weak to rely on for powering door speakers, or would a modest upgrade in head unit not make a big difference either?

Would an amp for the coaxials be the most cost effective improvement, and if so, could I expect enough bass response from them to maybe sell the subwoofer and its amp?

Kenwood lists the amp I have on my sub as 2 ohm capable (75 RMS watts x 2 @ 2 Ohms). Would I be well advised to run all 4 coaxials from this amp, or is that asking for problems?

Please remember that I am not trying to have a stereo that can be heard down the block, nor could I afford it if I did. I just want full-range sound that is reasonably clear at moderate volume. I have modest goals and want to reach them at a modest price. Any suggestions?

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[d77543020 10+ year member]

i would look into a 5 channel amp to run your whole system

 

[mylows10 5,000+ posts]

i would look into a 5 channel amp to run your whole system

a ph 5100 fr amp could run this system pretty well

 

[bbeljefe]

No one can answer the question of whether or not you need to keep a sub but you. If it were me, no sub means no play the radio... period. But you're not me.

To help your system out, deadening the doors will increase the sound quality considerably but will not increase the volume level much. On the converse, adding an amp will increase the volume considerably but will not increase sound quality much.

So, if the system sounds okay to you when there is little to no ambient noise but just isn't loud enough, then add an amp. If it sounds like shite to you but plays loud enough, then deaden the doors. And of course, if both, then both.

As for running all four speakers on the sub amp, that's on you. I wouldn't run rear speakers so I wouldn't recommend amplifying them but again, this is all pretty subjective so, do what sounds good to you. Like I said above, if there's no bass... I'd rather listen to my own random thoughts.

 

[kramer_212 10+ year member]

the jl wx is awful, i never sell those to anybody. but like mentioned above a good 5 channel amp is usually enough to please, even on the sub channel.

 

[DMoneyTT]

Thanks for the input everyone. I think the first step I will take is to seal up the doors and sound deaden them. The Civic already has more road noise than most cars because of thin glass and little to no sound dampening in the thin doors. The sound quality is passable at medium volume levels, but the soundstage really sounds like it is on the floor. My left leg is right in front of the left coaxial, so it gets muffled a lot too. I had the same problem in my 300zx, so I put in diamond audio components in custom enclosures in the doors, and ran them from a RF Punch amp. I originally had no sub in that car and the imaging and sound range were just what I wanted. I am trying to avoid spending much on this system, but if an amplifier is the way to go, maybe I should just sell my front and rear speakers and go with components up front. I would maybe just add an amp for those instead of going with a 3 channel or 4-channel to run everything. Unfortunately, I only have one RCA output on the head unit. Is an RCA splitter going to hurt the sound quality, or would that work okay to get the extra RCA output for the amp for the front speakers? Also, if I do keep these coaxials, they have pretty modest power handling. I know I can always bring the gain down and lay off the volume knob, but what power levels should I be looking for in an amp?

Thanks again for the help.

 

[DMoneyTT]

I'd be surprised if anyone is still following this thread, but just in case a search sends someone here, I thought I would follow up.

What I ended up doing was pulling the 6x9's from the rear deck and trading them to a friend for a decent set of tweeters with an adjustable crossover. I flush mounted the tweeters in the corners of the dash close to the windshield, and ran the rear channel of my head unit to them. The tweeters were equidistant from my ears to the coaxials in the door, so there is no weird delay or soundstage issues. It really just helped get the soundstage up off the floorboard since there are no legs to block and absorb the high frequencies. I adjusted the fader so that the rear output going to the tweeters was giving them just enough to move the soundstage up, but not so much that the high frequencies were sibilant or too bright. I then adjusted the crossovers to 8khz so that the tweeters sounded more blended in with the coaxials and it made a huge difference in unifying the sound between the two. Another added benefit to removing the 6x9's is the giant increase in bass. I figured that the speakers would not block much sound, but I was wrong. Putting the seats down made no difference in volume, but with the rear deck having those openings, it's like a ported effect. It took me by surprise there was so much more bass. I could feel it moving the hairs on my neck just listening to an upright bass on a modesky, martin, and wood jazz track.

As much as the sound did improve, I was still missing enough mid range punch to keep up with the bass and the treble. It was causing the bass to sound like it was coming from the trunk, which ruined the soundstage. So, I took my door panels off and completely sealed the doors with peel and seal that I got very cheaply from a friend who is a contractor. I then cut up an old closed cell sleeping pad and fitted it between the door and the door panels. The increase in midrange response, power handling, and overall sound quality was astonishing. The door speakers had actual punch and very solid midbass. It helped pull the sound together and make the bass feel non-directional. I then went for a drive and realized that the door sound insulation made such a big difference in road noise that I could hear more easily where other noise was getting in. So, I went to the junkyard and got a ton (enough to do a couple cars) of oem sound deadening mat from a mercedes and a cadillac for $10. I insulated the entire trunk, the rear doors and the entire floorboard and center tunnel. I went as far up the firewall as I could. I also used the remainder of a can of undercarriage coating to dampen the front wheel well liners since I couldn't get to them from the inside.

The difference is night and day. My little civic is so much quieter now, and I only added 24 lbs of deadening material, which I certainly don't notice under throttle. What I do notice is that I can barely make out the stock exhaust note unless the windows are down. My headliner is falling out, so I am going to redo it, and I will definitely be putting some sound deadening on the roof then too. Unfortunately, the passengers in the back of the car are just going to get blasted with bass, and have to cope with just getting the rest of the sound from the front speakers, but not many people ride in the back, and my dog isn't really that picky.

Thanks for the ideas everyone. This worked out really well, and it cost me exactly $20.