Clipping light on bass knob accuracy?

[metalheadjoe 10+ year member]

Alright, I'll bite.

The 3 amps I actually remember the measurements on are here:

My Boston Acoustics GT-2300 I ran years ago was rated 1000w into 4 ohms bridged. O-scope gave me 66v clean at 4 ohms so roughly 1100w actual power. The clip light on the remote came on at 62v, which is 961w and coincidentally below the rated power.

The taramps smart 3 I currently run is rated at 2000w at 4 ohms. I get clipping at about 94v or 2200w. I'm getting some voltage drop at that power level so it varies a little. The clip light comes on at about 92v or about 2100w, but the display on top of the amp peaks almost dead on the 94v reading.

The Saz 1500d I ran was putting out 43v into 2 ohms or roughly 925w. The clip light would come on at a hilarious 40v which is 800w.


I really don't know what crawled up your *** or who is ******* your wife while you are at work but not all clip lights are created equal. And measuring actual output of an amp while driving a reactive load can be a bit tricky. Nothing I have said is speculation beyond how the clip lights COULD function. Getting opinions on odd situations is part of why forums exist. You may know everything there is to know about all things audio, but the rest of us mere mortals like to discuss **** like grown-ups. And sometimes we discuss **** just for fun!

Have a great day, and may your perfectly accurate clip light serve you well and your coils stay virgin.

Matt

The question wasn't about how they COULD function. That's why I said your other comment was irrelevant to mine. I know how they COULD function. For that reason, I told OP he has to test his equipment himself if he wants the correct answer.

I know what clipping is and how it can be detected. I didn't interpret OP's question as a request for electrical theory; I took it as he wanted real-world experience.

Comparing the light to output voltage is not accurate. Actual output varies based on impedance, and impedance varies with frequency. That certainly explains why you responded the way that you did when I said I tested mine, as you must've assumed I tested my clip light with a multimeter.

My amp is an Orion HCCA5000.1DV2. I tested the clip light against my oscilloscope. The light was surprisingly accurate. You can criticize me all you want for sharing my actual experience, and I will criticize you for trying to detect clipping with a multimeter.

I apologize if OP was looking for theoretical accuracy or speculative circuitry. I apologize for insinuating he test his own gear to find an accurate answer to his question. Speaking for myself: if I ask a question to a community dedicated to a subject, I am looking for knowledge, not hypotheses.

I don't know all things audio, but I must've gotten you a little worked-up to say that. Have a snickers.

No hard feelings. I just have little patience for people who speculate or guess in response to questions, as it doesn't help anyone and potentially harms them.

Hope you also have a great evening.
- Joe

 

[mat3833 10+ year member]

The question wasn't about how they COULD function. That's why I said your other comment was irrelevant to mine. I know how they COULD function. For that reason, I told OP he has to test his equipment himself if he wants the correct answer.

I know what clipping is and how it can be detected. I didn't interpret OP's question as a request for electrical theory; I took it as he wanted real-world experience.

Comparing the light to output voltage is not accurate. Actual output varies based on impedance, and impedance varies with frequency. That certainly explains why you responded the way that you did when I said I tested mine, as you must've assumed I tested my clip light with a multimeter.

My amp is an Orion HCCA5000.1DV2. I tested the clip light against my oscilloscope. The light was surprisingly accurate. You can criticize me all you want for sharing my actual experience, and I will criticize you for trying to detect clipping with a multimeter.

I apologize if OP was looking for theoretical accuracy or speculative circuitry. I apologize for insinuating he test his own gear to find an accurate answer to his question. Speaking for myself: if I ask a question to a community dedicated to a subject, I am looking for knowledge, not hypotheses.

I don't know all things audio, but I must've gotten you a little worked-up to say that. Have a snickers.

No hard feelings. I just have little patience for people who speculate or guess in response to questions, as it doesn't help anyone and potentially harms them.

Hope you also have a great evening.
- Joe

I'm confused, you test with an o-scope but don't refrence the output voltage? The scope is measuring the waveform in volts. I was referencing the voltage of the waveform on the DSO Nano I used to take the readings. Playing a tone is the only real way to get an oscilloscope reading... Sure, you could play music but getting any kind of accurate reading is near impossible, and then that song would be good, but another might not be. I guess you could use pink noise?

How are you ilmeasuromg the accuracy of your clip light?

Matt

 

[metalheadjoe 10+ year member]

I'm confused, you test with an o-scope but don't refrence the output voltage? The scope is measuring the waveform in volts. I was referencing the voltage of the waveform on the DSO Nano I used to take the readings. Playing a tone is the only real way to get an oscilloscope reading... Sure, you could play music but getting any kind of accurate reading is near impossible, and then that song would be good, but another might not be. I guess you could use pink noise?

How are you ilmeasuromg the accuracy of your clip light?

Matt

I turned the gain up until the wave clipped. The light came on at the same time as I saw the wave clip on my scope. Voltage is irrelevant to the light's accuracy; get that out of your head.

 

[mat3833 10+ year member]

I turned the gain up until the wave clipped. The light came on at the same time as I saw the wave clip on my scope. Voltage is irrelevant to the light's accuracy; get that out of your head.

What did you use to generate the waveform?

Voltage is hardly irrelevant. Voltage and current are the only things an amp really cares about. The amps circuitry doesn't have a way to measure the load its driving(ok, not technically true in modern digital amps but it's irrelevant here). Everything is about x voltage and y current. That's how basic protect circuits work, by measuring current and or voltage and shutting down if a limit is reached. That's how the clip light most likely works if it's not chip controlled.

But even if you disregard the voltage numbers, the clip lights in my experience were turning on before the waveform was actually clipping at the terminals. No 2 amplifiers are the same, neither are any circuits really. There will always be small variations in resistances or capacitance or inductance, etc. Naturally that means everyone's clip light will, with a 99.9999999999999 percent chance, act differently. The quality of the components can majorly affect the consistency of the clip light as well. With all this taken into consideration, if I were a manufacturer selling to the broad market, I would engineer my "clip light" to turn on early. Better that than it turning on late.

Matt

 

[metalheadjoe 10+ year member]

What did you use to generate the waveform?

Voltage is hardly irrelevant. Voltage and current are the only things an amp really cares about. The amps circuitry doesn't have a way to measure the load its driving(ok, not technically true in modern digital amps but it's irrelevant here). Everything is about x voltage and y current. That's how basic protect circuits work, by measuring current and or voltage and shutting down if a limit is reached. That's how the clip light most likely works if it's not chip controlled.

But even if you disregard the voltage numbers, the clip lights in my experience were turning on before the waveform was actually clipping at the terminals. No 2 amplifiers are the same, neither are any circuits really. There will always be small variations in resistances or capacitance or inductance, etc. Naturally that means everyone's clip light will, with a 99.9999999999999 percent chance, act differently. The quality of the components can majorly affect the consistency of the clip light as well. With all this taken into consideration, if I were a manufacturer selling to the broad market, I would engineer my "clip light" to turn on early. Better that than it turning on late.

Matt

I don't remember what I used as a source. Why is that important?

Voltage at the clip light is the only voltage that matters, and even that is of digital importance. Voltage at the speaker terminals has no relevance to clipping in a general sense.

Your experience that you described did not mention watching the waveform and the oscope display at the same time. You said you compared voltage one time to voltage at a different time.

Correct, no two circuits are identical. THAT'S WHY MY FIRST SUGGESTION WAS FOR OP TO TEST THE ACCURACY OF HIS CLIP LIGHT BY HIMSELF SO HE WOULD KNOW ITS ACCURACY!

Your engineering technique would be relevant if you engineered OP's amp.

 

[mat3833 10+ year member]

I don't remember what I used as a source. Why is that important?

Voltage at the clip light is the only voltage that matters, and even that is of digital importance. Voltage at the speaker terminals has no relevance to clipping in a general sense.

Your experience that you described did not mention watching the waveform and the oscope display at the same time. You said you compared voltage one time to voltage at a different time.

Correct, no two circuits are identical. THAT'S WHY MY FIRST SUGGESTION WAS FOR OP TO TEST THE ACCURACY OF HIS CLIP LIGHT BY HIMSELF SO HE WOULD KNOW ITS ACCURACY!

Your engineering technique would be relevant if you engineered OP's amp.

OK, simple enough issue here.

If you are generating a waveform on an oscilloscope you have to have some form of frequency or what? Obviously Impedance changes with frequency and box type/tuning. You say voltage is irrelevant as is load, but if you are driving a speaker and checking for clipping you can set your gains unloaded, hook up your speaker and re-check your output waveform.

The voltage numbers are relevant because the light came on before clipping was occurring. Knowing how much before clipping is useful to me in this case. The light turned on before clipping while driving the speaker as well, so consistency is there.

I beleive I told him to check as well. Either way, it doest matter. I'm not understanding why this is such an in-depth discussion. You are saying the same thing I am, I'm just using real numbers to show the correlation I experienced.

Matt

 

[metalheadjoe 10+ year member]

OK, simple enough issue here.

If you are generating a waveform on an oscilloscope you have to have some form of frequency or what? Obviously Impedance changes with frequency and box type/tuning. You say voltage is irrelevant as is load, but if you are driving a speaker and checking for clipping you can set your gains unloaded, hook up your speaker and re-check your output waveform.

The voltage numbers are relevant because the light came on before clipping was occurring. Knowing how much before clipping is useful to me in this case. The light turned on before clipping while driving the speaker as well, so consistency is there.

I beleive I told him to check as well. Either way, it doest matter. I'm not understanding why this is such an in-depth discussion. You are saying the same thing I am, I'm just using real numbers to show the correlation I experienced.

Matt

I hate when people on this site post replies that don't answer the question to try to sound smart, and I really got annoyed when others posted their own tangents without answering the question. When you told me I need to see the waveform to actually detect clipping, you assumed that I tested my clip light with a voltmeter. Kind of insulting if you ask me.

I was going to let it go and honestly felt pretty immature after you wrote me off. That changed when OP started ****-talking me because i didn't present my facts in a warm-fuzzy way.

Think how short this thread would be if all the speculative responses were removed.

That said, you seem like you're genuinely trying to help people. Kudos for that.

Numbers don't show clipping; waveform shows clipping. You can't detect clipping with a voltmeter.

- Joe

 

[Nugg32 10+ year member]

Says the dipshit who owns an oscilloscope but prefers to poll the internet about his equipment.

I tested my light and can confirm it is accurate. I haven't seen anyone else say they actually tested their light, but at least everyone else is nice while they speculate for you!

If my question annoys you.. f69k off. It's that simple. You telling me my question is stupid isn't going to stop me from asking and you commenting on my post with your beta male attitude only gives me joy that you're crying about it so by all means. Please keep replying about how stupid everyone else is and how "cool and smart" you are

 

[metalheadjoe 10+ year member]

If my question annoys you.. f69k off. It's that simple. You telling me my question is stupid isn't going to stop me from asking and you commenting on my post with your beta male attitude only gives me joy that you're crying about it so by all means. Please keep replying about how stupid everyone else is and how "cool and smart" you are

Can you tell me how loud my stereo is? I have a meter, but your guess is probably more accurate.

 

[Bobbytwonames 5,000+ posts]

Can you tell me how loud my stereo is? I have a meter, but your guess is probably more accurate.

I see that you are out making friends again.

 

[metalheadjoe 10+ year member]

I see that you are out making friends again.

Apparently some people ask questions when they don't want the answer.

 

[Bobbytwonames 5,000+ posts]

Apparently some people ask questions when they don't want the answer.

That sounds like me. I already know the answer.