Clipping light on bass knob accuracy?

[nauc 10+ year member]

how id do it...

turn your deck up 3/4, turn the remote up 3/4, turn your amp up until you hit the voltage youre looking for using 0 db tones

 

[mat3833 10+ year member]

What does that have to do with my post?

You asked why Hispl thinks the lights don't measure clipping...

I was just supplying information to discuss your question.

Matt

 

[metalheadjoe 10+ year member]

You asked why Hispl thinks the lights don't measure clipping...

I was just supplying information to discuss your question.

Matt

If you have any knowledge as to whether clip lights actually work accurately, we'd all love to hear it. Otherwise, thanks for the irrelevant, unsolicited info?

 

[mat3833 10+ year member]

If you have any knowledge as to whether clip lights actually work accurately, we'd all love to hear it. Otherwise, thanks for the irrelevant, unsolicited info?

 

[MinuteMan]

Am I missing something?

That sure seemed like relevant and solicited information regarding how clip lights can't monitor actual clipping???
Assuming the clip light is measuring voltage, it's not going to be displaying true clipping, just high output of your amp.

Or am I misunderstanding?

 

[hispls 5,000+ posts]

@hispls what makes you think these things don't actually detect clipping?

A conversation I had with Stephen Mantz some years ago when he added that feature to his amps.

clip light always comes on before actual clipping at the terminals.

This was the gist of what Stephen had told me about his amps.

Again, if we're talking the amp (usually) has another roughly 15% power to deliver when that light comes up the difference in output will be inaudible trying to push it beyond that will almost always put you into hard clip particularly when 1 click of the volume knob on even a 1-60 source unit will be trying to get another 30% out of the amp. They're certainly good enough for the vast majority of users.

If you're listening to music with your ears set gains with your ears, if you're "listening" to tones in the lanes you should set gains with a Termlab. Nobody listens to music with an osciliscope.

 

[mat3833 10+ year member]

Am I missing something?

That sure seemed like relevant and solicited information regarding how clip lights can't monitor actual clipping???
Assuming the clip light is measuring voltage, it's not going to be displaying true clipping, just high output of your amp.

Or am I misunderstanding?

It's best to just let it go. Not worth the internet points in my opinion, lol

Matt

 

[mat3833 10+ year member]

A conversation I had with Stephen Mantz some years ago when he added that feature to his amps.

This was the gist of what Stephen had told me about his amps.

Again, if we're talking the amp (usually) has another roughly 15% power to deliver when that light comes up the difference in output will be inaudible trying to push it beyond that will almost always put you into hard clip particularly when 1 click of the volume knob on even a 1-60 source unit will be trying to get another 30% out of the amp. They're certainly good enough for the vast majority of users.

If you're listening to music with your ears set gains with your ears, if you're "listening" to tones in the lanes you should set gains with a Termlab. Nobody listens to music with an osciliscope.

Yep, if I remember correctly the clip light circuit is usually a simple affair. It comes on at a certain voltage and is tied into the output section so that it can adjust based on the load being driven.

Say an amp makes 50v at the rails, clip light comes on at 40v, clipping actually occurs at 43v.

I'm sure some amps have a proper clip light. But the issue is, by the time that an "accurate" light is comming on, you are probably already getting a clipped signal in some capacity when you look at the dynamic load of music.

Matt

 

[Nugg32 10+ year member]

Thanks for your advice. Not sure why that other dude needed to comment when the only thing coming from him was his douchey, pointless opinions.

 

[hispls 5,000+ posts]

I'm sure some amps have a proper clip light.

If someone like Stephen isn't doing so, I can't imagine any of these far east buildhouses are, particularly as something simple would be just as effective for practical applications. This sort of thing only needs to be the digital equivalent of the old needle that jumps up to the right and when it's in the red you know you're nearing the limit of output your equipment can produce... except you only see the red bit and it's just an LED instead of a mechanical needle.

 

[mat3833 10+ year member]

If someone like Stephen isn't doing so, I can't imagine any of these far east buildhouses are, particularly as something simple would be just as effective for practical applications. This sort of thing only needs to be the digital equivalent of the old needle that jumps up to the right and when it's in the red you know you're nearing the limit of output your equipment can produce... except you only see the red bit and it's just an LED instead of a mechanical needle.

Yea, it's kinda hard to argue against that. Stephen is an amazing amp designer. On the other hand, electronics have gotten so cheap that adding a small chip/circuit for a more accurate indicator costs almost nothing. Hell, the "display" on the smart 3 is pretty accurate, as is the clip light. No, it's not 100 percent accurate. But it's the closest to dead on I've had.

Matt

 

[hispls 5,000+ posts]

the "display" on the smart 3 is pretty accurate

Which is, again the digital equivalent of the old needle display (which even some Audiobahn amps had on them in the past).
Consider also, what use is a light that only comes on when you're already in trouble? How do you know where to gain? If your light never flickers how do you know you aren't leaving some headroom on the table and if your light comes on you're instantly in trouble. I'd say just some simple voltage/current detection is the most simple and useful for the purpose of showing the user when his amp is running at its limits.

 

[mat3833 10+ year member]

Which is, again the digital equivalent of the old needle display (which even some Audiobahn amps had on them in the past).
Consider also, what use is a light that only comes on when you're already in trouble? How do you know where to gain? If your light never flickers how do you know you aren't leaving some headroom on the table and if your light comes on you're instantly in trouble. I'd say just some simple voltage/current detection is the most simple and useful for the purpose of showing the user when his amp is running at its limits.

Yes, I'm not disagreeing with you. A voltage readout you can see while demo-ing would honestly be more useful than the little light. The display on top of the smart 3 just that, a digital representation of a needle sweep.

I was simply saying that making an accurate clip indicator wouldn't be difficult for amp makers to add. It's kinda like an idiot light on your car dash. "if this symbol lights up stop your car"

Would it save people from killing subs? Maybe. Could it cause more people to kill subs? Also a maybe. The information you have is only as useful as you make it. Personally I prefer accurate information/data. In this case an extra 100w of power is not something I'd be willing to chase at the possible expense of a clean signal. Just as I'm not interested in chasing an extra few degrees of timing or a few pounds of boost to gain 10 horsepower on my car.

As far as the headroom comment, I don't run anywhere near the 2400w this amp makes at 4 ohm. Headroom is something i try to have on all my amp/speaker combinations. You can feed a coil FAR more clean power than dirty power, and it doesn't take much clipping to kill a 3" midrange driver. I honestly don't use the light at all, it's not even hooked up.

Matt

 

[metalheadjoe 10+ year member]

Thanks for your advice. Not sure why that other dude needed to comment when the only thing coming from him was his douchey, pointless opinions.

Says the dipshit who owns an oscilloscope but prefers to poll the internet about his equipment.

I tested my light and can confirm it is accurate. I haven't seen anyone else say they actually tested their light, but at least everyone else is nice while they speculate for you!

 

[mat3833 10+ year member]

Says the dipshit who owns an oscilloscope but prefers to poll the internet about his equipment.

I tested my light and can confirm it is accurate. I haven't seen anyone else say they actually tested their light, but at least everyone else is nice while they speculate for you!

Alright, I'll bite.

The 3 amps I actually remember the measurements on are here:

My Boston Acoustics GT-2300 I ran years ago was rated 1000w into 4 ohms bridged. O-scope gave me 66v clean at 4 ohms so roughly 1100w actual power. The clip light on the remote came on at 62v, which is 961w and coincidentally below the rated power.

The taramps smart 3 I currently run is rated at 2000w at 4 ohms. I get clipping at about 94v or 2200w. I'm getting some voltage drop at that power level so it varies a little. The clip light comes on at about 92v or about 2100w, but the display on top of the amp peaks almost dead on the 94v reading.

The Saz 1500d I ran was putting out 43v into 2 ohms or roughly 925w. The clip light would come on at a hilarious 40v which is 800w.


I really don't know what crawled up your ass or who is ******* your wife while you are at work but not all clip lights are created equal. And measuring actual output of an amp while driving a reactive load can be a bit tricky. Nothing I have said is speculation beyond how the clip lights COULD function. Getting opinions on odd situations is part of why forums exist. You may know everything there is to know about all things audio, but the rest of us mere mortals like to discuss **** like grown-ups. And sometimes we discuss **** just for fun!

Have a great day, and may your perfectly accurate clip light serve you well and your coils stay virgin.

Matt