Capacitors? Where's the proof?

[LiveAudio911 10+ year member]

free energy and the solution to the energy problems of the world.

We already have the technology for that.. Tesla Tower as the one he was experimenting with in Nazi Germany pulled ionic energy from the Ionosphere, as well you can take specialty magnets that retain their charge over longer periods of time, perfectly aligned that will along an outer wring and the other set aligned on the outside of a drive shaft, will propel it self from the reaction created when two magnets of same polarity come near each other, the push there of..

Its called and Magnetic motor.. I did one for a science fair project back in High School and worked.. key is getting big enough magnates to have enough force to turn the crank shaft and overcome the magnetic resistance of the generator.

We as humans only faintly know anything about the universe, how it works, energy.. we have only begun to peal back the layers of possibility.. we are confined only by our vague understanding based on principles we have tested and found to be understood.. as 'law' yet quantum physics dictates the only thing that limits our ability is the limitation we set on our understanding, allowing our selves to be restrained by preexisting laws that are only part of the equation.

Bahh..

 

[ahole-ic]

Prove it! I have already tried it.. and the cap, looses all energy.. and once it gets down to around 8v it shuts it self off and then you test it and its maybe if your lucky 1 v or a faction of a volt as most 1 farad caps only store around 1 v
Your an idiot that does not know jack if you think it will, and if you do have some cap that will do what your saying and record a video of it and prove me wrong..

A battery will over a long period of time will increase it self back to 12v, yes it will not have the same effective force but it will read a 12v... just as vinegar in a jar with a copper core will produce a very low voltage from the chemical reaction of its properties..

Same thing happens in a wet battery.. it is very minimal and occurs over a long period of time.. its not instant as I have already said.. why don't you run right out and actually try it and experiment instead of being a douche and telling me not to post.. HA HA HA @ both of you

LOL! What brand of magical battery are you using? Caps hold their charge when not discharged, and their charge slowly leaks over a LONG period of time.

Also, a "volt" is stored? You're proving you have no clue what you're talking about. A volt = electromotive force. Aka how strong the force is that is pushing the current through the conductor. True current cannot flow without a difference of potential aka volt, but volts are not stored. Current is stored. You are in fact an idiot. I'm not sure where you learned this, but it is HILARIOUS. Thank you for being so proud to be retarded! You made my night.

 

[bubbagumper6 5,000+ posts]

Capacitors can and will store a charge for a long time, that's why it's possible to get hurt (or even killed) when working on electronics even after you've disconnected the power source. If the caps aren't presented with a load to drain them, they still hold their charge. Not sure where your getting your info but it's wrong...

Also, like Helotaxi said, Batteries can't create charge, they can only store it.

And thanks for replying again Helotaxi, I understand what your talking about and agree, I was thinking of the case where the single battery doesn't have the power the amplifier is looking for. Using your example lets say as the amplifier tries to pull that 100A the battery can only supply 50A of it, so when recharging the alternator has to replenish that 50A (or 5A/s if you will). Now if you throw in a second battery and now you have that 100A available, the alternator now has to replenish 100A (or the full 10A/s) so wouldn't that be a greater load?

 

[helotaxi 5,000+ posts]

Prove it! I have already tried it.. and the cap, looses all energy.. and once it gets down to around 8v it shuts it self off and then you test it and its maybe if your lucky 1 v or a faction of a volt as most 1 farad caps only store around 1 v

That right there says all we need to know. You are incredibly ignorant on the basics of how a cap actually works.

Your an idiot that does not know jack if you think it will, and if you do have some cap that will do what your saying and record a video of it and prove me wrong..

Not worth my time to prove basic electrical physics that you can read in any textbook on the subject.

A battery will over a long period of time will increase it self back to 12v, yes it will not have the same effective force but it will read a 12v... just as vinegar in a jar with a copper core will produce a very low voltage from the chemical reaction of its properties..

SO WHAT!?! I never argued that it wouldn't, but htat is not nearly the same thing as recharging itself. The amount of energy present in the battery has not increased regardless of what the no load voltage reads.

Same thing happens in a wet battery.. it is very minimal and occurs over a long period of time.. its not instant as I have already said.. why don't you run right out and actually try it and experiment instead of being a douche and telling me not to post.. HA HA HA @ both of you

I actually KNOW haw the battery works. No point in me going out and proving what I already know, especially since people way smarter and with much better equipment available to them have already done all the experimentation necessary. If you'd bother to read what smarter people than you have done and written about in exhaustive detail over many years and many volumes, you might actually find out that you are an ignorant troll that is totally clueless about the topic you continue to post about.
Here's a little page to get you started... Battery Performance Characteristics - How to specify and test a battery

 

[helotaxi 5,000+ posts]

And thanks for replying again Helotaxi, I understand what your talking about and agree, I was thinking of the case where the single battery doesn't have the power the amplifier is looking for. Using your example lets say as the amplifier tries to pull that 100A the battery can only supply 50A of it, so when recharging the alternator has to replenish that 50A (or 5A/s if you will). Now if you throw in a second battery and now you have that 100A available, the alternator now has to replenish 100A (or the full 10A/s) so wouldn't that be a greater load?

It would in theory, if the battery could only provide 50A. I have RC car batteries that will fit in the palm of my hand that are capable of delivering well over 50A. If the battery were theoretically unable to deliver the current the voltage drop would be extreme and depending on the amp either shutdown or *poof*! Look at the CCA of most any battery and you're looking at 500+. That is the amount of current that the battery can deliver at 0C with the voltage above 10V.

 

[bubbagumper6 5,000+ posts]

It would in theory, if the battery could only provide 50A. I have RC car batteries that will fit in the palm of my hand that are capable of delivering well over 50A. If the battery were theoretically unable to deliver the current the voltage drop would be extreme and depending on the amp either shutdown or *poof*! Look at the CCA of most any battery and you're looking at 500+. That is the amount of current that the battery can deliver at 0C with the voltage above 10V.

lol, I know 50A is nothing I was just using your example!

And I suppose that makes sense, I know my yellowtop is rated at like 900CCA so that's a pretty **** big amount of current it could supply.

 

[helotaxi 5,000+ posts]

We already have the technology for that.. Tesla Tower as the one he was experimenting with in Nazi Germany pulled ionic energy from the Ionosphere

You have a poor knowledge of history as well. The Tesla Tower was built in the US and was demolished in 1917. It was also for the long distance transmission of electrical power, not for power generation. Tesla was WAY ahead of his time and I would argue at least on par with our time within his fields of study. That said, even he knew that nothing was free.

 

[LiveAudio911 10+ year member]

You know I really do not give a shit what you think about me or my posts..

All this forum is filled with is the likes of you that's sole purpose in life is to dog on people

while you partially understand the same topic we are speaking about.. just as I do not know everything... and do not even give someone the time of day.. If I am so incorrect instead of ripping on me or someone like me why not try and help them understand instead of being a complete douche... making fun of them? How mature!

I gave 2 examples that clearly show how a battery will increase slightly its voltage.. if a battery could not then riddle me on how a my example of the car can turn over the engine after it was already drained, then sat and came back to 12.x volt to actually turn the car over again EH??? EH???

What about the example I gave of putting vinegar in a container and having a copper conductor and because of the chemical reaction it creates a small voltage charge, enough to light a small light bulb?

Because they both work the same way, the Acid in the battery that already has a partial, even if week charge, reacts to the plates and increases very slightly the voltage.. yes the amount of actual force is decreased, but yet the voltage increases back very slightly in time..

As far as the farad cap.... A 1-farad capacitor can store one coulomb of charge at 1 volt, Aprox 50w of power...

So go ahead now.. slam and flame me all you want I really do not give a rats ass

Arguing with people is like running in the special Olympics.. even if you win your still retarded..

HA HA HA H AH AHA HA HA~!!!! Who gives a shit...

 

[LiveAudio911 10+ year member]

 

[helotaxi 5,000+ posts]

You know I really do not give a shit what you think about me or my posts...
All this forum is filled with is the likes of you that's sole purpose in life is to dog on people

while you partially understand the same topic we are speaking about.. just as I do not know everything... and do not even give someone the time of day.. If I am so incorrect instead of ripping on me or someone like me why not try and help them understand instead of being a complete douche... making fun of them? How mature!

If you think that being told that you are wrong is "making fun of you" you have some hard lessons to learn in life. Actually this forum is just as full of insecure little know-nothings that have a little fragment of knowledge on a subject and think that makes them right about everything and who then get all butt hurt when the massive gaps in their knowledge or understanding are pointed out.

I gave 2 examples that clearly show how a battery will increase slightly its voltage.. if a battery could not then riddle me on how a my example of the car can turn over the engine after it was already drained, then sat and came back to 12.x volt to actually turn the car over again EH??? EH???

The initial discharge heats the battery slightly and which increases the speed of the chemical reaction giving it a momentary boost that only sometimes is enough to get the car to turn over. But I'm sure you already knew that. What happens if you leave a car sitting for a few weeks or months? Oh that's right, 99% of the time the battery dies. If the battery was even slightly discharged when the car was parked, it will die much quicker.

What about the example I gave of putting vinegar in a container and having a copper conductor and because of the chemical reaction it creates a small voltage charge, enough to light a small light bulb?

You've created a weak galvanic cell...so what? That is the same principle that a battery works on to begin with. Leave the bulb connected long enough and it will dim and go out. If you then tested the acidity of the vinegar you would find that it had decreased significantly. Letting it sit won't bring that back either.

Because they both work the same way, the Acid in the battery that already has a partial, even if week charge, reacts to the plates and increases very slightly the voltage.. yes the amount of actual force is decreased, but yet the voltage increases back very slightly in time..

You are following a logical fallacy here. Voltage and capacity are not the same thing. Just because the voltage might creep back up once the load is removed is not the same thing as energy being "created in the battery." The battery is still as discharged as it ever was and the only thing that will change that is the application of a voltage at or above the charge voltage of the battery which then forces electrons off the plates and back into the electrolyte. That increases the acidity of the electrolyte

As far as the farad cap.... A 1-farad capacitor can store one coulomb of charge at 1 volt, Aprox 50w of power...

I know that. What happens when you apply MORE than 1v? Oh, right, it stores MORE energy. Apply 14v to a 1 Farad cap and it will store 14 Coulombs of energy. It will keep storing that energy until it is discharged by some means involving completing the circuit between the two electrodes.

 

[helotaxi 5,000+ posts]

Funny pic.

 

[soldiermedic 10+ year member]

I'm not a fan of Yellow tops, they have really low power rating compared to Kentik's.. esp for the price.. bottom line is your lights dim because there is not enough amperage in the electrical system to meet the demand, so when your amps pull power.. (its being shared with everything else) amperage drops so your lights dim..
Having a bigger battery could and might correct it if its big enough and can store enough power to allow time for the alt to recharge the bat... but even if that if you can not get a battery big enough to supply the amperage the alt lacks to produce... then you would need to consider either putting a second battery in to supply reinforcement, or upgrade the alt..

You probably need to find out what your alt is putting out... some stock alts are very low.. and offer OEM upgrades to a few amps higher.. sometimes can help.. while other times you have to buy an aftermarket alt that can produce 200 amp or so..

Basically everything depends on the car/truck... each one uses different amounts of power.. but for simplistic reasons (Lame's terms) a typical vehicle will use about 70 amps of power running give or take..

Typical 1,000 watts of rms power (not exact but just as general guide) 70 amps or more.. depending on the amp.. most stock alts produce between 80ish give or take up to 130 amps (give or take)

So for example lets say these values were some what close.. (which they are not by any means accurate) this example you would need 140 amps constant, of current available in the electrical system, now the key here is.. so you basically you would need a big enough battery or batteries to compensate for the lack of ability of the alt to produce that much..

I suppose in this instance an HC2000 Could possibly* supply the power needed allow the under sized alt to keep up with the electrical demands somewhat.. but the core problem still is the alt can not recharge the battery(ies) properly.. you could probably get away with it for a short while but if you never allowed the bats to recharge you would probably at some point see the lack of amperage in the system return, but that would be very dependent on the use of the amps.. I'm sure you do not run around blaring your stereo to every single song.. or constantly pull full power.. so more than likly in this case you would probally get away with it being the alt would have time to recharge the battery and keep up..

Again just my opinion... and not really sure how 'correct' I am..

I thank you all for the information you have provided thus far, even if some of it is nothing more than a pissing contest between geniuses...or fools. Here's some technical data from my vehicle:

My stock alt is 145 amps. Not sure if that value is solid as it came from my manual, though I bought the vehicle new in 2007. 2 amps: 600 RMS on the 4 channel, 512 RMS on the rear 2 channel for the sub. Music gets played mainly on the road to work and home, with the occasional trip to Seattle or Vancouver on the weekend. As stated earlier, lights dim out for fractions of a second at a time as the greater draw is made with the sub.

That being said, what is the best solution, since I get the feeling that a cap is going to be disputed constantly either way?

 

[PaulD 10+ year member]

is this LiveAudio911 guy for real ? If I didn't know better, I would think he's just pulling people's chain by posting this humorous stuff.

 

[helotaxi 5,000+ posts]

I thank you all for the information you have provided thus far, even if some of it is nothing more than a pissing contest between geniuses...or fools. Here's some technical data from my vehicle:
My stock alt is 145 amps. Not sure if that value is solid as it came from my manual, though I bought the vehicle new in 2007. 2 amps: 600 RMS on the 4 channel, 512 RMS on the rear 2 channel for the sub. Music gets played mainly on the road to work and home, with the occasional trip to Seattle or Vancouver on the weekend. As stated earlier, lights dim out for fractions of a second at a time as the greater draw is made with the sub.

That being said, what is the best solution, since I get the feeling that a cap is going to be disputed constantly either way?

How's your wiring? What size is your power wiring to the amps? Are you using a chassis ground or a dedicated return wire? Have you done the big-3? No other upgrades or changes are going to matter if the wiring itself isn't up to the task. You didn't say whether the amps were Class A/B or D but based on the fact that none of them are mono amps, I'll assume that they are Class A/B. If so I would recommend either a single 1/0 power wire to a distro block and 4ga to each amp or a dedicated 4ga from the battery for each amp. The 1/0 will give you less resistance and would be my preference. Whatever you do for the (+), do the same for the (-). Upgrade the Big-3 as well and then reassess your situation. I'd venture to guess that fixing the wiring, both (+) and (-) will mostly solve your problem.

 

[soldiermedic 10+ year member]

How's your wiring? What size is your power wiring to the amps? Are you using a chassis ground or a dedicated return wire? Have you done the big-3? No other upgrades or changes are going to matter if the wiring itself isn't up to the task. You didn't say whether the amps were Class A/B or D but based on the fact that none of them are mono amps, I'll assume that they are Class A/B. If so I would recommend either a single 1/0 power wire to a distro block and 4ga to each amp or a dedicated 4ga from the battery for each amp. The 1/0 will give you less resistance and would be my preference. Whatever you do for the (+), do the same for the (-). Upgrade the Big-3 as well and then reassess your situation. I'd venture to guess that fixing the wiring, both (+) and (-) will mostly solve your problem.

All of that has already been done. 1/0 ga running from the battery, 200ANL fuse 10 inches after that, distro block splitting 4ga into my amps. Both amps are AB. Could I have a change of result if I went to class B/D or just a mono?