Cap or battery?

[Bumpin_Ack 10+ year member]

Don't tell me to get a new high-output alternator, its just not possible for my car (trust me, i looked into it, and so did a couple of other people with my same car) So my question is, which would you do, a cap(i know you all hate on them, but in my friend's case it stopped the flilckering) or should i stop being so **** cheap and spend the xtra $50 and just get a yellow top?

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[LSCCEO 10+ year member]

Both require more output on your alternator, especially a second battery. A cap maybe better in your situation (I'v read your alternator posts), just remember, caps don't make power they just store and release it.

 

[Bumpin_Ack 10+ year member]

I wouldn't get a second battery, just replace the diehard that i already have.

 

[CWT 10+ year member]

From what I've read from other posts (What's going on with the cap debate), and what I know about automotive electronics, it makes sense to do what you can to improve the efficiency of the electrical system. First, did you upgrade your power and ground cables (Big 3) in the engine compartment?

If not I recommend it; resistance kills voltage and your alternator's ability to provide power when it's needed. Especially on sport-compacts; the car manufacturers have been using the cheapest crap lately when wiring up the charging systems. Even on my full-sized truck!

And second, a stronger primary battery could'nt hurt; especially if your driving anything Japanies. Yellow top? Stronger than standard lead-acid as far as durability goes, but more importantly, try to get a battery that has a higher CCA (Cold Cranking Amprage) rating. Optima batteries seem to have about 700 or higher which is pretty good. I think the most I've seen the Japanies use is 450-500. A higher CCA rated battery can take a higher load hit. That's why V8's need more than 4's, and Diesel truck engines need two or more batteries to get started (The starter motor pulls the heaviest load). In a sense, a good battery can do the same job as a cap; to a point. Installed close to the sub amp a cap might take some of the momentary shock loads off of the charging system though, but NOT if the overall load on the electrical system is too high.

Remember: It's the alternator's job to keep things going once the engine is started, NOT the battery; so it needs to be able to do its job well; after that, it's up to the battery to back it up. But repeated high current draw/heavy charging on ANY battery will reduce its life span (That might be why someone came up with the cap idea).

Just my 50 cents on the issue. Later.

 

[LBX2G 10+ year member]

^^^^^^^^^ that is the best reply i have ever heard on that subject. CWT is my new best friend.//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

 

[Bumpin_Ack 10+ year member]

. First, did you upgrade your power and ground cables (Big 3) in the engine compartment?

Exacly which wires are you talking about...? I think i have 8 gauge right now going to my battery, should i go 4awg (like my amp wiring) or go even bigger?

 

[CWT 10+ year member]

Bumpin_Ack;

Yes, I think you need to match your amp GA. or possibly larger.

I believe the "Big 3" is the: 1.) Positive power cable from the alternator to the battery (Probably the most important) 2.) Ground cable from the battery 3.) Ground strap from the engine block/head to the body/frame of the car.

If I remember correctly, 8 AWG is only good for power and ground up to about 350 total watts of amps; 4 AWG is good up to 600 total watts; Above that, you might need to go with a 1/0 AWG setup. Better QUALITY cables is also important.

If you go to http://www.sounddomain.com and look up their amp wiring install kits, check out how many watts each kit is rated at and compare that to what your running. Your main power and ground need to be as large or larger.

Think about this: If you went with a 4 AWG on your amps because they need it, and you only have 8 or 10 AWG from the alternator to the battery, then you have a bottle-neck in the power supply line. Same goes for the ground cables. If the resistance to your alternator is too high, the amps will **** the excess power they need from the battery when demand is high instead of the alternator.

If you need to make the lines bigger, then they need to be bigger all the way from the alternator, to battery, to amps, to ground; otherwise you wind up with a bottle-neck in the system.

EXAMPLE SETUP: 1.) 4 AWG main power and ground; alt to batt., batt. to amp distribution block, batt. to ground, and ground strap. 2.) 8 AWG from amp distribution block to amps, and amps to ground. (Amps not exceeding 350 watts ea.)

Later. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/cool.gif.3bcaf8f141236c00f8044d07150e34f7.gif

 

[60_cent 10+ year member]

I would sart with a solid battery under the hood, the yellow top would be perfect.

I running a batcap in the trunk and it seems to work for me. The batcap is like a battery and cap all rolled into one.

 

[helotaxi 5,000+ posts]

Both require more output on your alternator, especially a second battery.

How do you figure? Please explain this. I would like to know your reasoning.

 

[Bumpin_Ack 10+ year member]

//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/eek.gif.771b7a90cf45cabdc554ff1121c21c4a.gif CWT- Thanks. I didn't even think about my exisiting wiring to my battery and my battery's ground. I just kept thinking "ohh make sure i run 4awg to my amp so i don't have any restrictions" I'll make sure i start with these wires before i do ANYTHING!!!. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/clap.gif.178cba2c538c68e720c727fcb024b19c.gif

 

[Denny347 10+ year member]

There are some good answers in these two articles.

http://www.carsound.com/columns/navone/nav0003.shtml

http://www.welcometotheden.8k.com/caraudio/Captest.pdf

 

[helotaxi 5,000+ posts]

There are some good answers in these two articles.http://www.carsound.com/columns/navone/nav0003.shtml

That article is total crap. The rider can't maintain the RPM to maintain the required voltage. A car engine CAN and DOES. Their little "experiment" is very flawed and proves nothing. As you deep discharge multiple batteries, then sure more will be even more of a load, but if you rarely dip into the battery, and then only briefly, then an extra battery will keep the primary from discharging as deeply and prolong its life.

http://www.welcometotheden.8k.com/caraudio/Captest.pdf

Again not a very valid "test." Unless you run your system (all 2000 watts) full tilt boogie all the time with a stock alternator then what does this show? If you can run your 200w system full tilt and sit in the car, you have other issues. A more valid test would have been to run the "system" at a realistic volume and taken measurements. That would have been "real world."

I used to have a lot of respect for Clark and Navone, but the more I see stuff like these "experiments" that are set up to "prove" their point the more that respect dwindles. For a time, someone had "proved" cold fusion, remember. Then once their "experiments" were scrutinized they were found to be a sham.

 

[darrenwang 10+ year member]

I total understand no.2 and no.3 of the big 3. They are basically same as the grounding upgrade.

But I don't know how to do the first one,

1.) Positive power cable from the alternator to the battery (Probably the most important)

I didn't see any direct cable between alternator and the battery?

 

[helotaxi 5,000+ posts]

I didn't see any direct cable between alternator and the battery?

It will come off the POS terminal, not the NEG. It may go by way of the starter first, as it does on my car.

 

[PopcornPlaya 10+ year member]

first thing i'd do is upgrade the battery (i'd personally go with red top if it were the primary battery, b/c of the cold cranking rating, plus it charges better off the alternator) a deep cycle battery (yellow/blue top) is more for a secondary application. then i'd go alternator (there are companies that make them for your car you just have to search for them. (try ohio generator)(330-875-6677). then, upgrade elec system (pos and neg, larger gauge)then after i replaced batt, and alternator, and wiring, i'd think towards the cap, if the problem persisted. cap would be a last resort for me though. just depends on the vehicle as to if the cap will have any or some, or a good effect or not.