Build Help, Advice, Personal Experiences, and product guidance

[tommymilan311]

I made a post in the speaker section about what HQ speakers I should look into. I figured I'd make a post about most of the products we are looking at using in our build. We'll, we aren't set or sold on anything. These are just known, or at least advertised, high quality products around our price range. I understand that most of this is subjective to the listen, which is why I just wanna get some peoples person experiences with brands and quality. Some food for though for us to go out and try to find some samples of different brands.

So to the build. My buddy just got a 2016 Kia Optima. Its fully loaded, he isn't impressed with the Harmon Kardon stock set up. So he's wanting to do a complete overhaul, as I did mine. Dudes pretty much loaded, I don't ask him what he makes but he pretty much buys whatever he wants without checking a price, and he didn't give me a budget, just said get him the very best I can. Now, Obviously I'm not looking for $10000 speakers. But that doesn't mean we can't spend on quality. Right now is pretty much just a JL setup. But I think we will definitely steer away from JL on the subs, and probably all together.

Primary music is going to be Metal/Hardcore. But there is also Hip-Hop/Rap sprinkled in there, as well as Rock, Punk, Pop, and even Classical (Orchestra).

Here is the speaker configuration for his car. If we went with some of the higher quality JL, which is about at the upper eclon of his budget, I think we'd go with:

(2) JL C5-653

The 4 6.5 inch speakers in the door.

2 Mid Bass in the rear deck.

My question here is do I put 2 mid bass woofers in the tweeter spots and fabricate some sail panels for the tweeters. Or use 1 Mid bass woofer in the mid middle spot, 2 tweeters in the tweeter spots and still fabricate spots for the Sail Panel and then tune the tweet volume down?

So either:

4 6.5" Door speakers, 4 4" Mid Bass Woofers, and 2 Tweeters

or

4 6.5" Door Speakers, 3 4" Mid Bass Woofers, and 4 tweeters.

I'm not dead set on JL. Just using these speakers as a comp and its around the top price we are looking at spending on the speakers. Obviously less $$ and equal or better quality is very welcome.. I've learned that brand hugging is stupid.

But to keep think going in one general direction, and staying consistent, I'm looking at JL subs to. Looking for the "deal" I found the 12" W7 Series are the most available, and oddly enough, the cheapest W7 Series JL subs. I'm just using this as a gauge. Its around the subwoofer budget. In all honesty, I'll probably be looking more into Sundown or DD over JL when we go to do the build.

12W7AE-3

Now. With the all the speakers picked out. We need some power. Right? I personally don't think there is a huge difference when it comes to picking brands. As long as it high quality parts being used and it dynos out at rated power, you aren't going to get a a audible difference from a JL to Sundown or what I use, FSD. As I said, as long as all power in clean and true, it wont sound different. FSD is a brand I trust, and they are cost effective.

With my speakers looking like 75X4 I could go with a FSD Audio FZ85.4 which would give me a little more than what I need. Or I could just spend the extra 80$ and get the FZ125.4.. Both are well within the highs amp budget. I'll get the bigger one. I'll also get this from one of our vendors here on CA

FSD Audio FZ 125.4

Same with the highs amp, I'll again use FSD for my Monoblock. Well.. That actually doesn't look possible anymore. It appears (And this was in the process when I bought mine) that FSD has been bought out/replaced by Audio Legion. Audio Legion has the AL2500.1D which looks like the replacement for my FSD Audio 2600D.

does a bunch of Dyno, Audio Legion is one of the brands they Dyno. They do not Dyno this particular Amp, but they do test its more powerful sister model, the 3500 amp. It tests 4452 watts certified at 1 ohm. Odd thing is that with the 2 JLs, it'll run 1.5 ohms. This will still be more than enough power. As well as if we decide Sundown or DD, still got power covered.Audio Legion AL2500.1D

Processing power! Okay. This might be odd. I'm considering buying a new processor for my car and selling him my JL-MS8 for $800. Basically, I want more control than the MS8 gives. I've been rocking it for about a year now. Its a great piece of technology, I love it and noticed an instant boost in quality once installing it. Just want more tweaking. So I'm possibly looking at getting a Alpine PXA-H800 with the RUX-C800.. I really am not a fan of the controller tho. But it appears you do most of your tweaking on a laptop. It also looks like their is not factory integration on this, could be a future issue, but for now, that seems okay in my car. I have an after market stereo. I'm open to exploring other brands. This is still a subject I'm somewhat new to.

Alpine - PXA-H800

I figure the MS-8 will work well for what my buddy wants because he wants to keep his factory stereo. I had seen some pretty nifty things KHA has done in order to make the factory HU control the volume of the processor without having to use the processor volume. Does that make sense? lol.

And then of coarse we (I) will be building a custom box to sub specs. We will be doing the big 3. And we will be basically gutting the interior and treating the inside head to toe. He has a 2nd vehicle so we are planning on just gutting it completely for about 2 weeks so we can just get in and get out. We are wanting to have all of our Ts dotted and Is crossed so we can start the build in the spring, probably late April early May.

Thoughts please? Even if you don't have anything in particular to say on this. Let me know what your best speaker/sub/amp/processor experience was. Give me some food for thought and something to further look into. You can only get so far when you don't have any differing opinions.

Click to read more...

 

[hispls 5,000+ posts]

A few thoughts.

First, there's nothing wrong with JL. IMO their components sound great and the W7 is a great sounding woofer that can get loud. Their higher end amps are high quality, reliable, and the HD series are full range class D. There is absolutely NO REASON to use class A/B amp these days unless you want to get into something old-school that you always dreamed about when you were in high school for the sake of nostalgia.

That said, DD subs are proven performers and if you build the spec box they'll perform admirably. If you're going that route stick to 35XX series and up.

I'm a big fan of the JBL lineup. They have good amps, a couple really high end component sets, and the WGTi MKII subs are very nice sounding.

Have you considered the Pioneer stage 4 dex-p99rs? It should have all the processing power you'd ever need without needing anything outboard whatsoever.

Lastly, I don't know what the meaning of all those speakers everywhere in the car is, but conventional wisdom is that you should stick with as few sound point sources as possible and keep them all in front of you. Less is more, and a good set of 2 way components up front in the kicks on a 125X4 amp active should do plenty. If you are creative go 3 way and use the A pillars for tweets and a 3-4" mid, but I'd recommend against just filling every stock speaker hole.

 

[BCotrell 10+ year member]

W7's are overpriced and underwhelming. 1.5 ohm final load on 2 12's is bullshit too. Research different subs. Also if you follow hispls recommendation about keeping it simple with spear placement you could just get a really competent 2 din hu with active capabilities. Maybe add a processor later if ur that unhappy with tuning. Just sounds like an expensive money dump on too much overpriced equipment.

 

[tommymilan311]

A few thoughts.
First, there's nothing wrong with JL. IMO their components sound great and the W7 is a great sounding woofer that can get loud. Their higher end amps are high quality, reliable, and the HD series are full range class D. There is absolutely NO REASON to use class A/B amp these days unless you want to get into something old-school that you always dreamed about when you were in high school for the sake of nostalgia.

That said, DD subs are proven performers and if you build the spec box they'll perform admirably. If you're going that route stick to 35XX series and up.

I'm a big fan of the JBL lineup. They have good amps, a couple really high end component sets, and the WGTi MKII subs are very nice sounding.

Have you considered the Pioneer stage 4 dex-p99rs? It should have all the processing power you'd ever need without needing anything outboard whatsoever.

Lastly, I don't know what the meaning of all those speakers everywhere in the car is, but conventional wisdom is that you should stick with as few sound point sources as possible and keep them all in front of you. Less is more, and a good set of 2 way components up front in the kicks on a 125X4 amp active should do plenty. If you are creative go 3 way and use the A pillars for tweets and a 3-4" mid, but I'd recommend against just filling every stock speaker hole.

Yes. I know JL is a good, high quality brand. Its just a very high priced brand as well. i know there are equals to it for a lower price, just trying to find some guidance as to what those brands are so we can try and locate a sample.

And I know he's going to want to at least fill all 4 of his doors, he isn't always the only person in the car. While this is going to mostly be set up for his own personal experience, its also going to have to be a pleasant experience for every single passenger in his car regardless of seating position. I do think I want to talk him into fabricating tweeter spots in the A-pillar. doing so, it'd be best to have mids in the stock tweeter spot and nothing in the center stock mid spot? I've already told him we don't have to fill every speaker spot, sometimes its like talking to a wall. "We'll it came with 10 speakers so why is it better to have less" sort of thing. So I'm trying to configure the best possible way to give him what he wants.

As for the processor he's offered my $800 for mine. He knows they are cheaper. But I think he just wants to basically buy me whatever processor I want so he can take the MS8. I'm okay with that. Unfortunately I don't have dash space. I like the idea of putting whatever I get back under my passenger seat. I am fading heavily to the Alpine, in all honesty.

W7's are overpriced and underwhelming. 1.5 ohm final load on 2 12's is bullshit too. Research different subs. Also if you follow hispls recommendation about keeping it simple with spear placement you could just get a really competent 2 din hu with active capabilities. Maybe add a processor later if ur that unhappy with tuning. Just sounds like an expensive money dump on too much overpriced equipment.

The amp he'll likely get will be more than enough for a 1.5 ohm load. And JL is just the price example, he will have no problem paying less for equal or greater quality, maybe even a little more. And yes, we are looking into other subs, I steered him away from Alpine, my Type-Rs have been disappointing. But we are looking at Sundown and DD too.

A aftermarket head unit would be completely out of the question in a 2016 fully loaded vehicle. Plus he wants my MS8 and I want something with more user capability.

As for the part of a "money dump with over priced equipment." Thats why I'm asking the questions. As mentioned above, there isn't much of a budget. We probably don't want to break 10 grand or make a goal to hit. Just some info on some high quality brands to look into.

Not really directed at anyone:

Everyone wants to say "research" but noone wants to be a guide... Do you know what research says? JL is the best. Do you know what the user says? They are not.

 

[hispls 5,000+ posts]

W7's are overpriced and underwhelming.

Like I said, JBL lineup should perform as well as the JL for a good bit less money. The anniversary edition components look excellent and have high reviews and can be had for pretty short money buying online since that model has been retired. Matching amps+all speakers to the MS8 processor. Not that you need to but for the sake of aesthetics it would be nice.

If he doesn't have cop car with a plexiglass barrier between front and rear seats there's no reason you can't hear things just fine in the back particularly if you can put some tweets in the A pillars.

The issue with just peppering the interior with speakers is that when sound waves originate at different points they all hit your ear at a different time. The negative effects are most extreme at crossover points, and can somewhat be corrected with enough time and processing power, but in general it just becomes an acoustic nightmare. Yes it will be louder but it almost guaranteed won't sound as nice.

Dunno what your buddy has for a home system to listen to music but go to a really high end (the kind of place that doesn't have price tags) audio store and ask to listen to a reference level speaker system. It will be 2 way most likley (possibly with a sub) and you will be standing/sitting in an equilateral triangle with you at one vertex and the two speakers at the other. Many DIY audio guys chase "full range" speakers for the sake of the single point source. That is optimum method to reproduce stereo sound. Anything beyond that is a compromise.

 

[BCotrell 10+ year member]

A Saab, that car is like one giant subwoofer enclosure. Just felt equivalent or better woofers can be had for less if he's talking buying brand new 12w7. And he's probably right. A 2500.1 will probably be "enough" to run those woofers but why give away the extra power....might as well run a 3k amp. There's a girl on Facebook selling 4 of her twisted sounds 2.8k's for like 400$ each. You should pick one of those up

 

[tommymilan311]

Its really just finding the right amp for the 1.5 ohms. The amp we are looking at would be more than powerful enough for these subs at 1.5. But again, heart isn't even set on JL.

I really do understand. I will probably be able to talk him into going with a 2 way in the front with tweets in the pillars.... But I'm 100% sure he will not budge on the rear doors, He's not going to have a brand new 2016 car missing speakers. I'd be the same way and was when I did mine, maybe thats part of why I don't like my alpines? I think if he sets up the car properly with the MS8 it should tune the rear doors down when it is set on the Drive, Passenger, and Front seating positions, correct? What I did with mine was just used the 6.5" woofer and not the tweeters in the rear, when I tuned the MS8 with the mic it tuned the rear door speakers down considerably, and then I further turned the gain down at the amp for the rear speakers. You can tell a difference in the back vs having them off.. and there is a huge difference when I set the MS8 to the all seating setting, and even further more when its set to rear.

I actually have people in the back seats a lot more often than I expected I would. Which is why I raise this concern. If the processor is set properly, I don't think he'd have too much of an issue with speaker interference, correct? I thought that was kinda the point when setting the processor with a mic.

 

[hispls 5,000+ posts]

Its really just finding the right amp for the 1.5 ohms. The amp we are looking at would be more than powerful enough for these subs at 1.5. But again, heart isn't even set on JL.
I really do understand. I will probably be able to talk him into going with a 2 way in the front with tweets in the pillars.... But I'm 100% sure he will not budge on the rear doors, He's not going to have a brand new 2016 car missing speakers. I'd be the same way and was when I did mine, maybe thats part of why I don't like my alpines? I think if he sets up the car properly with the MS8 it should tune the rear doors down when it is set on the Drive, Passenger, and Front seating positions, correct? What I did with mine was just used the 6.5" woofer and not the tweeters in the rear, when I tuned the MS8 with the mic it tuned the rear door speakers down considerably, and then I further turned the gain down at the amp for the rear speakers. You can tell a difference in the back vs having them off.. and there is a huge difference when I set the MS8 to the all seating setting, and even further more when its set to rear.

I actually have people in the back seats a lot more often than I expected I would. Which is why I raise this concern. If the processor is set properly, I don't think he'd have too much of an issue with speaker interference, correct? I thought that was kinda the point when setting the processor with a mic.

Most "2 ohm" stable amps should drive the 1.5 JL coil just fine. Ditto for "4 ohm" amps being able to run a single 3 ohm coil. Most "4 ohm" coils are typically a bit below 2 ohm DCR anyway.

Suit yourself if you want to just fill all those speaker holes for the sake of filling them, but you shouldn't need that to get loud or for passengers to hear and it won't help things sound good. The point of DSP is that it can attempt to correct phase issues for you in the driver's seat but that'll sound even worse for passengers anywhere else. If you just turn off time alignment it will sound the same for everybody more or less.

 

[tommymilan311]

Most "2 ohm" stable amps should drive the 1.5 JL coil just fine. Ditto for "4 ohm" amps being able to run a single 3 ohm coil. Most "4 ohm" coils are typically a bit below 2 ohm DCR anyway.
Suit yourself if you want to just fill all those speaker holes for the sake of filling them, but you shouldn't need that to get loud or for passengers to hear and it won't help things sound good. The point of DSP is that it can attempt to correct phase issues for you in the driver's seat but that'll sound even worse for passengers anywhere else. If you just turn off time alignment it will sound the same for everybody more or less.

I agree. But as I said. Its hard not to fill the speaker holes for the sake of filling speaker holes in a brand new car. I mean right now, it has less than 1500 miles on it. But I think I can get him to tone it down on the 11 speakers, and go with something more like 8, or 10. 4 in the front, doors and tweets, 2 back door speakers, and then the 2 subs. Told him he only needs 1, but he's all about the "but 2 looks complete" so there is a bit of a look typa thing with him too. We are definitely leaving the factory sub location open. I just don't know if he is going to want tweeter or mids in the rear deck in the factory mids location. Something I'm going to have to talk him out of. He will also save a little not having to buy 2 sets of components.

So I'm not suiting myself per-say, I'm suiting him lol. I already have my work cut out trying to talk him into not filling every hole.. But I agree that'll probably be best.

Something I learned through this. Having individual frequency speakers is not necessarily a good thing. See, before I had been told this was somewhat a goal. "Get your subs for bass, but a mid bass for more of the low end mids, and you 6.5" doors will take care of more of your middle/hi-middle frequencies, and your tweets will take care or the highs, in doing so you will get the cleanest sound a best (probably a better word) stage."

So, obviously when I saw the 3 ways I had this in mind, but with the 4" mids I would think they would handle more of the high mid frequencies and the 6.5" woofer would handle more of the mid bass and mid frequencies. Usually I'll see folks getting 8" mid bass speakers.

Edit:

But here is a question. With the center speaker (and I haven't really pulled anything apart and dug into, but if it is possible. Would it be beneficial to add a 8" mid bass woofer in the center speaker location if I can fit it?

 

[Jeffdachef 5,000+ posts]

I'd go with arc audio black series 3 way components or scanspeak 2 way fronts. Leave the rears as is on head unit power. More like any rear is basically wasted amplifier, processor, electrical and soundstage for this level of install. You want to purely focus on a mega front stage that absolutely melts his face off with SQ goodness.

Arc audio 6 channel mids and highs amp.

Sub amp can be whatever korean amp you want

for the music he listens to, a linear sub like the w7 wont sound good, you might need a more traditional sounding sub for metal bud. I'd do a T-line enclosure and have @CSCStang design it. W7s dont have a heavy thick punch, its too smooth imo. Sounds like sh*t on metal to me. W6s would be a much better choice IMO. However i'd go with SSA or incriminator before JL anyday.

If you have to go ported, dont tune low, 35hz is the lowest i'd tune and even then it might be a lil too low. But T line is a vastly superior enclosure to ported for your buddy's listening preferences.

 

[tommymilan311]

[quote name='Jeffdachef']I'd go with arc audio black series 3 way components or scanspeak 2 way fronts. Leave the rears as is on head unit power. More like any rear is basically wasted amplifier, processor, electrical and soundstage for this level of install. You want to purely focus on a mega front stage that absolutely melts his face off with SQ goodness.

Arc audio 6 channel mids and highs amp.

Sub amp can be whatever korean amp you want

for the music he listens to, a linear sub like the w7 wont sound good, you might need a more traditional sounding sub for metal bud. I'd do a T-line enclosure and have @CSCStang design it. W7s dont have a heavy thick punch, its too smooth imo. Sounds like sh*t on metal to me. W6s would be a much better choice IMO. However i'd go with SSA or incriminator before JL anyday.

If you have to go ported, dont tune low, 35hz is the lowest i'd tune and even then it might be a lil too low. But T line is a vastly superior enclosure to ported for your buddy's listening preferences.[/QUOTE]

Hmmmm. I'm going to have to look into a T-line enclosure for myself. I listen to the same music but have 10" Type-Rs in a custom ported box. And I only used the JL as a "This is about what we are looking to spend" aspect.

I already have my work cut out for me in convincing him less is more. If I'm unable to convince him (I'm sure I will be and he's gonna wanna match all his inner speakers) should I just slap the new ones in? I was planning on running everything through the MS8, so should I run those off MS8 power instead of amp power in that case? I know that I'm going to have to tune them down at the amp (if I go through the amp).

Also, about the amps. I've gotten sooooo much conflicting information. I've had a couple mono blocks, and the main difference from one to the other was distortions. My FSD 2600.1 that I have now was more than enough power, and when compared to other amps with no distortion on my speakers I haven't noticed a sound difference. Plus most of the time I have my subs turned way down. But is this different for the high?

Is there actually going to be a difference in sound? If the music is being processed anyhow through a aftermarket processor, wouldn't a "signature sound" be a bad thing? Or is clean, undistorted power, clean undistorted power regardless of brand name? I have literally been confidently told both things, which completely contradicts, And I don't have a lot of personal experience with multiple highs amps.

I'll generally try to either find DYNOs of the amp I'm looking at or a amp in the model series.

Also, in going with a 6 channel, would that be 2 channel for tweeter, 2 channels for front doors and 2 channels for rear doors, or would it be 2 for front tweets, 2 for front mids, and 2 for front doors. If I'm also getting a Monoblock amp, I'm not sure why I'd need more than 4 channels, unless its to have complete control over the tweeter gains.

The goal, is a melt your face off stage haha. And he already has wayyyy more budgeted than I think we need for treating his car. He already bought 4 packs of the Stinger deadener... Same car as mine but 2 years new and I needed less than 2 haha. And then I have left over MLV and insulation from my build.

 

[hispls 5,000+ posts]

I agree. But as I said. Its hard not to fill the speaker holes for the sake of filling speaker holes in a brand new car. I mean right now, it has less than 1500 miles on it. But I think I can get him to tone it down on the 11 speakers, and go with something more like 8, or 10. 4 in the front, doors and tweets, 2 back door speakers, and then the 2 subs. Told him he only needs 1, but he's all about the "but 2 looks complete" so there is a bit of a look typa thing with him too. We are definitely leaving the factory sub location open. I just don't know if he is going to want tweeter or mids in the rear deck in the factory mids location. Something I'm going to have to talk him out of. He will also save a little not having to buy 2 sets of components.
So I'm not suiting myself per-say, I'm suiting him lol. I already have my work cut out trying to talk him into not filling every hole.. But I agree that'll probably be best.

Something I learned through this. Having individual frequency speakers is not necessarily a good thing. See, before I had been told this was somewhat a goal. "Get your subs for bass, but a mid bass for more of the low end mids, and you 6.5" doors will take care of more of your middle/hi-middle frequencies, and your tweets will take care or the highs, in doing so you will get the cleanest sound a best (probably a better word) stage."

So, obviously when I saw the 3 ways I had this in mind, but with the 4" mids I would think they would handle more of the high mid frequencies and the 6.5" woofer would handle more of the mid bass and mid frequencies. Usually I'll see folks getting 8" mid bass speakers.

Edit:

But here is a question. With the center speaker (and I haven't really pulled anything apart and dug into, but if it is possible. Would it be beneficial to add a 8" mid bass woofer in the center speaker location if I can fit it?

I like 3 way fronts, but it's definitely not necessary to get good sound or to get loud and really won't help much if you can't get the midrange up high and RIGHT NEXT TO the tweeter.

Also if you're not going active crossover you're very limited in choice since you'll need a 3 way set with passive crossover. So 3 way can work well but it opens up more room for problems with more sound point sources and another crossover point where things can go wrong.

You definitely don't need 2 subs period. The ONLY reason to go with more subs is to hold more power and it doesn't sound like you're trying to run 3KW+ substage.

If you don't plan to play movies recorded and played back in 5.1 surround you do not want any "center" channel.

Unless you're shopping in the absolute junk drawer for amps you should not hear any "signature" from them. Google "Richard Clark Challenge".

 

[tommymilan311]

I like 3 way fronts, but it's definitely not necessary to get good sound or to get loud and really won't help much if you can't get the midrange up high and RIGHT NEXT TO the tweeter.
Also if you're not going active crossover you're very limited in choice since you'll need a 3 way set with passive crossover. So 3 way can work well but it opens up more room for problems with more sound point sources and another crossover point where things can go wrong.

You definitely don't need 2 subs period. The ONLY reason to go with more subs is to hold more power and it doesn't sound like you're trying to run 3KW+ substage.

If you don't plan to play movies recorded and played back in 5.1 surround you do not want any "center" channel.

Unless you're shopping in the absolute junk drawer for amps you should not hear any "signature" from them. Google "Richard Clark Challenge".

Thanks!!! Thats helpful. And the plan has now become to fabricate the A-pillars for the tweeters, we could fit the Mids in the factory Tweeter location I'd think with minimal work. I'm not sure if they will watch any movies, actually. I'm not sure what his factory HU is capable of. I watch movies in my car, also go to the drive in when its nice.

Couldn't the MS8 be the crossover?

 

[JohnKuthe]

A few thoughts.
First, there's nothing wrong with JL. IMO their components sound great and the W7 is a great sounding woofer that can get loud. Their higher end amps are high quality, reliable, and the HD series are full range class D. There is absolutely NO REASON to use class A/B amp these days unless you want to get into something old-school that you always dreamed about when you were in high school for the sake of nostalgia.

That said, DD subs are proven performers and if you build the spec box they'll perform admirably. If you're going that route stick to 35XX series and up.

I'm a big fan of the JBL lineup. They have good amps, a couple really high end component sets, and the WGTi MKII subs are very nice sounding.

Have you considered the Pioneer stage 4 dex-p99rs? It should have all the processing power you'd ever need without needing anything outboard whatsoever.

Lastly, I don't know what the meaning of all those speakers everywhere in the car is, but conventional wisdom is that you should stick with as few sound point sources as possible and keep them all in front of you. Less is more, and a good set of 2 way components up front in the kicks on a 125X4 amp active should do plenty. If you are creative go 3 way and use the A pillars for tweets and a 3-4" mid, but I'd recommend against just filling every stock speaker hole.

Like I have done! ;-) Save for tweeters low on the A pillars. No pic yet. I need to take one.

John Kuthe...

 

[tommymilan311]

Okay. So. I think I talked him into powering the rear speakers off factory power... or MS8 power if I can do that.

With the rear speakers being powered off factory/ms8 power, how should I wire up the 4 channel? 2 Channels on the doors? and the other 2 on the Tweeter?

I'm unable to convince him in not upgrading the rear door. Gotta have the matching speakers, I can relate tho. So should I just have him buy 4 - 6.5" woofers and a pair of tweeters?

Also, There will be 2 - 4" dash spots that will be unused at this point with us moving the tweeters to the A-pillars. Would there be any benefit adding 4" mid bass woofers in these spots? There is also a Center speaker spot for a 4" speaker as well. There will be some 5.1 surround sound movie use, but not a primary use. Says the 5.1 would be nice to have tho. With this, how should I cross them over? If its possible, could I use MS8 power to power them and use the MS8 to tune them as well.