Budget 10" under $80?

[basswiigee]

lol, sealed f3 is almost the same as the pio free air fs, and with its fs and q the roll-off would be very slow and smooth. Cabin gain should more than flatten it. Vented box size is based on equal ripple response or quasi-butterworth. Could be smaller and tuned a bit higher with little harm. As long as the f3 is 32Hz you'd be good to go.

out of the bravox or IA which would you pick?

 

[audio_phill 10+ year member]

I thought the pio's sounded alright... but i also ran ported not sealed... I'm not familiar with the one you recommended but if you watch some old youtube video's they were calling them unblowable plugging them in the wall and everything trying to kill 'em.. lol yeah their comps sux, and everyhting was set dmm and oscope, which makes me believe they were a little overrated... but in that budget almost anything he gets will be better than what he's got.... and if he's deciding between the bravox 12 and the IA 10... i'd have to give it to the IA 10

10 Inch

FS

36 Hz

Re

8Ω Series

Qms

4.79

Qes

.51

Qts

.49

Mms

139 g

Cms

131 mm/N

Sd

380 cm2

Vas

27 L

Spl

85.42 db 1w/1m

BL

14 TM

X-max

11 mm

Power

300 RMS

So idea box is 81L @ 30Hz (abouth the same as the bravoz only not as sq capable.thanks to a high Q and Higher Fs) It would undoubtedly hold more power, it may get a hair louder, but it leaves alot to be desired in sq and seamless blend. It has less displacement as well.

It is typical of a forum that so many non main stream woofers be recommended, but just because a driver is built by a company sponsored on here doesnt make it a superior driver in its class. I'm not trying to say the bravox is the best driver there is, I'm just saying, for the price, the performance if boxed well, would be hard to beat based on frequency response, distortion, and transience and transparency.

It ought to compliment the front stage that the op listed and do well for what it sounds like he is wanting. maybe I missed it, but I didnt see any post saying he was looking for peaky or boomy sound signiture as found with woofers with specs like the typical entry level drivers produced from companies such as IA and SQ etc. I have used/installed plenty of both, and have had plenty of face time with Nick Wright. I'm not dissing those companies, they do fine for what they are, but they arent the system completing sound reinforcement it seems op wants.

 

[basswiigee]

10 InchFS

36 Hz

Re

8Ω Series

Qms

4.79

Qes

.51

Qts

.49

Mms

139 g

Cms

131 mm/N

Sd

380 cm2

Vas

27 L

Spl

85.42 db 1w/1m

BL

14 TM

X-max

11 mm

Power

300 RMS

So idea box is 81L @ 30Hz (abouth the same as the bravoz only not as sq capable.thanks to a high Q and Higher Fs) It would undoubtedly hold more power, it may get a hair louder, but it leaves alot to be desired in sq and seamless blend. It has less displacement as well.

It is typical of a forum that so many non main stream woofers be recommended, but just because a driver is built by a company sponsored on here doesnt make it a superior driver in its class. I'm not trying to say the bravox is the best driver there is, I'm just saying, for the price, the performance if boxed well, would be hard to beat based on frequency response, distortion, and transience and transparency.

It ought to compliment the front stage that the op listed and do well for what it sounds like he is wanting. maybe I missed it, but I didnt see any post saying he was looking for peaky or boomy sound signiture as found with woofers with specs like the typical entry level drivers produced from companies such as IA and SQ etc. I have used/installed plenty of both, and have had plenty of face time with Nick Wright. I'm not dissing those companies, they do fine for what they are, but they arent the system completing sound reinforcement it seems op wants.

I would agree on most of what you said, but I don't any experience with the bravox thats why I can't recommend I am glad you recommended it because it very well may be a great sub, I don't offer recommendations on what I haven't played with or just because its on the forum and I wasn't saying to get the pio's just told him out of what he named which i've played with alot if not all of them, those were the best out of what he named.... if it was me I'd buy better quality used of the forum for the same price with no breakin time... there was a guy on here or the other forum with xfl 10's for 90... I probably went that route... the new sq subs are at a awesome price... i've played with alot of their subs not the new ones... but know its a tried and true company and believe for the little budget its worth a shot... of course i am not as spec savvy as you are!!! but i've ran through a bazillion budget system as I change system probably once or twice every couple of months...

 

[audio_phill 10+ year member]

I would agree on most of what you said, but I don't any experience with the bravox thats why I can't recommend I am glad you recommended it because it very well may be a great sub, I don't offer recommendations on what I haven't played with or just because its on the forum and I wasn't saying to get the pio's just told him out of what he named which i've played with alot if not all of them, those were the best out of what he named.... if it was me I'd buy better quality used of the forum for the same price with no breakin time... there was a guy on here or the other forum with xfl 10's for 90... I probably went that route... the new sq subs are at a awesome price... i've played with alot of their subs not the new ones... but know its a tried and true company and believe for the little budget its worth a shot... of course i am not as spec savvy as you are!!! but i've ran through a bazillion budget system as I change system probably once or twice every couple of months...

I've had great success with IA and SQ as well, but these new lines arent up to par with their other stuff, theres even reports of the I series surround tearing at the cone because the motor is still pushing the cone forward after the surround has reached its Xsus, and the hds stuff is simply substandard even by typical under par aq/sq engineering. When it comes to build quility I typically refer to IA as "military Spec" but after the complaints popping up about failing cones and failing surrounds I'm becoming worried about the future QC with Nick's stuff I typically have found "reserved" for less esoteric companies like SD, SQ, Funkin, PS, Cascade, PAP etc (PAP definitely bottom of the barrel followed buy the companies they OEM'd [sorry terra])

 

[CerwinVega_Fan 10+ year member]

I have a jl w3 I could sell u

 

[Jeffdachef 5,000+ posts]

Well if the decision is down the the Bravox 12" or the Incriminator 10" being paired with the suggested PPI 650.1 amp, what differences would I notice between the two to influence my decision? Keep in mind I am planning to have a sealed enclosure.
Jeffdachef, you were correct about me planning on buying a premade box. As I continue to read about SQ and ICE, I feel I now have no other choice than to have a custom enclosure made for whatever woofer I end up with. This is no real issue aside from me attempting a "budget" stereo upgrade over my factory system, but with that aside, I know in the end I will be happy that I didn't half-*** any part of my build.

well if your going sealed, it should be fine if you buy a pre-made box as long as it matches your sub's specs and that its durable and air tight. Ported however when done right you'll get very similar sound quality to sealed but a lot more output. I'd go sealed with the bravox to save some hassle. The output shouldnt be too far apart since the 12 has quite a bit more cone area then the 10" IA in a ported box.

 

[audio_phill 10+ year member]

well if your going sealed, it should be fine if you buy a pre-made box as long as it matches your sub's specs and that its durable and air tight. Ported however when done right you'll get very similar sound quality to sealed but a lot more output. I'd go sealed with the bravox to save some hassle. The output shouldnt be too far apart since the 12 has quite a bit more cone area then the 10" IA in a ported box.

Kind of misleading on output, cone area is considered louder based on More Sd = More Vas = Higher sensitivity, but has recently been blurred to more sd is better.

Increasing Sd (cone area for those not tech acronym friendly) doesnt always increase output. Gaining mms and lowering Vas decreases output by lowering efficiency of the driver, High Q drivers (especially high Qes drivers) are very inefficient and for example a 12" With a qes would have a very low sensitivity, therefore need more power to reach the same output of a more efficient smaller driver. However, in the case of this Bravos vs IA I-10, the difference in efficiency would allow the 12 to reach similar output to the 10 but the ten may have more output at and around tuning (box gain) but below tuning the Bravox would again prevail thanks to its slow roll off thanks to the aid of the 2nd order slope, the lower fs and the lower qts. So, the IA may have a few frequencies where peak output would fair to the IA, but, output across the range would side with the Bravox.

 

[audio_phill 10+ year member]

I have a jl w3 I could sell u

junk outta here lol, jk... not bad drivers in their niche.

 

[JohnKimble]

maybe I missed it, but I didnt see any post saying he was looking for peaky or boomy sound signiture as found with woofers with specs like the typical entry level drivers produced from companies such as IA and SQ etc. I have used/installed plenty of both, and have had plenty of face time with Nick Wright. I'm not dissing those companies, they do fine for what they are, but they arent the system completing sound reinforcement it seems op wants.

You are correct, I am not looking for a huge boomy sound from my woofer. But since I am coming from a factory audio system with blown woofers, I believe either one of these subs would fit my needs. Am I wrong assuming that if I went with the Bravox 12", and decided it was just too much bass for my needs, I could just dial it down with the gain control provided by the amp? If that is the case then I figure why not get the Bravox then? If I'm playing something with heavy bass, then dial it up from the controller, if I'm playing something with very little bass, then I could just dial it back, correct?

Another question: Since the Bravox is DVC 2 ohm, I would wire it in series to achieve 4 ohms, yes? And if I went with the Incriminator then I would be wise to choose the dual 2 ohm model, as so I could wire that in series for maximum SQ? Please correct me if I'm wrong here.

 

[audio_phill 10+ year member]

You are correct, I am not looking for a huge boomy sound from my woofer. But since I am coming from a factory audio system with blown woofers, I believe either one of these subs would fit my needs. Am I wrong assuming that if I went with the Bravox 12", and decided it was just too much bass for my needs, I could just dial it down with the gain control provided by the amp? If that is the case then I figure why not get the Bravox then? If I'm playing something with heavy bass, then dial it up from the controller, if I'm playing something with very little bass, then I could just dial it back, correct?


Another question: Since the Bravox is DVC 2 ohm, I would wire it in series to achieve 4 ohms, yes? And if I went with the Incriminator then I would be wise to choose the dual 2 ohm model, as so I could wire that in series for maximum SQ? Please correct me if I'm wrong here.

series always offers a stronger BL product so when ever possible series is best to keep the BL at its full potential. Dual 2 ohm in series is 4 ohm yes.

As for output, dialing the amp down with the gain would help if the bass was over powering the fronts or just too loud for your liking.

Wiring series or parallel wont change much sq wise, may notice a tad less impact when paralleled but series typically has a touch more inductance so its a conundrum at best, but typically more BL is better lol,

Also, If you run the bravox sealed, I'd id go a tad over PE's recommended size to lower the qtc and slow the rolloff a tad more. If you go vented, which I would recommend, anything from 2.5@32 to 3 @ 28 should more than fit the bill. I currently run vented in one vehichle and sealed in the other. My vented box is overly large for the driver and tuned lower than most would consider but the slope is very smooth and the response is smooth as well, no one frequency really stands out or is too quiet. My sealed setup is a high qtc alignment (helps my missing freq's due to cabin loss from 45-60hz) and it rolls off faster than I would like from a sealed box but the trade off was worth it to me, no more missing freq's and still have extension below any vented enclosure within twice the size.

If you dont like the bravox, I'd be happy to pick it up for a reasonable price as long as it's not cooked or damaged. I would be more than happy to toss it into one of my ht systems in a large low tuned vented box on my sa240! lol.

 

[JohnKimble]

Now with the Bravox, would it make much of a difference if I went with the PPI 650.1 or the MB Quart 500.1? PPI would be 240 watts, MB would be 250 watts.

Is the PPI just an overall higher quality amp than the MB?

 

[audio_phill 10+ year member]

Now with the Bravox, would it make much of a difference if I went with the PPI 650.1 or the MB Quart 500.1? PPI would be 240 watts, MB would be 250 watts.
Is the PPI just an overall higher quality amp than the MB?

Its a tad overkill, I would however want around 400 rms on tap to cover dynamic peaks that might otherwise end up clipped. And.... Might wanna move on the bravox soon, others have found them (thanks to this thread probably, lol)

http://www.caraudio.com/forums/subwoofers/567607-bravox-budget-subs.html

 

[JohnKimble]

Alright, I ordered the Bravox. Parts Express wanted $23 for shipping, unless my total order was over $99. If you order it from Amazon, shipping is free, the price is still $59 and the order is still fulfilled through Parts Express.

I will be pairing the Bravox with the PPI 650.1 unless someone has another suggestion.

Precision Power PPI BK650.1D (BK6501D) 650W RMS Mono Class D Black Ice Car Amp

 

[Jes 42 10+ year member]

Alright, I ordered the Bravox. Parts Express wanted $23 for shipping, unless my total order was over $99. If you order it from Amazon, shipping is free, the price is still $59 and the order is still fulfilled through Parts Express.
I will be pairing the Bravox with the PPI 650.1 unless someone has another suggestion.

Precision Power PPI BK650.1D (BK6501D) 650W RMS Mono Class D Black Ice Car Amp

You did ok.Should sound nice.

 

[basswiigee]

You did ok.Should sound nice.

I agree...