Breaking in new subs?

[hispls 5,000+ posts]

people throw 1500 watts with a clean unclipped signal on one of them just fine demoiing the whole day, this is pure clipping. Get off that stupid argument lmao. His electrical couldnt hang when he's not driving plain and simple and it lead to clipping. Even if he had 500 watts on them, it would die slower but it'll still generate a lot of heat compared to clean power. You are literally telling everyone to use a smaller amp in every fking thread rather than addressing the real issues which the OP already stated.

I've run my JBL/Crown 6K into a 3" 4 layer coil sub. It doesn't make that sub handle 6000W+ it means I know what I'm doing and regardless of what number is printed on the amp I'm not giving the sub more power than the coil can handle faster than it can shed the heat.

The math is very clear on this. The difference in power averaged over time of a square wave is @ 40% more than a sine wave of the same amplitude peak to peak. Now that's assuming OP can't tell the difference between a hard square wave and sinusoidal wave, in which case do you think he'll fare better with a larger amp? From there any partially clipped waveform is some percentage less than 40% of the power over time of a pretty waveform.

The shape of the waveform is almost completely irrelevant, the only thing that matters is the flow of current over time.

Also I did not tell OP to use a smaller amp, I told him he is burning coils because he is giving them more power than they can handle which is 100% accurate. He can learn to go easy on the volume knob, buy a smaller amp, or buy more robust woofers or add another coil to better manage heat, or even buy a pre-amp with a compressor.

Your going into this with the assumption that a 2.5" coil can safely handle 1500W (or whatever your buddy has printed on his amp) and any evidence to the contrary you're going to move the goalposts, play "no true Scotsman" and perform various mental gymnastics to discard the fact it the evidence contradicts your theory.

 

[LetMyBeatPound]

I've run my JBL/Crown 6K into a 3" 4 layer coil sub. It doesn't make that sub handle 6000W+ it means I know what I'm doing and regardless of what number is printed on the amp I'm not giving the sub more power than the coil can handle faster than it can shed the heat.
The math is very clear on this. The difference in power averaged over time of a square wave is @ 40% more than a sine wave of the same amplitude peak to peak. Now that's assuming OP can't tell the difference between a hard square wave and sinusoidal wave, in which case do you think he'll fare better with a larger amp? From there any partially clipped waveform is some percentage less than 40% of the power over time of a pretty waveform.

The shape of the waveform is almost completely irrelevant, the only thing that matters is the flow of current over time.

Also I did not tell OP to use a smaller amp, I told him he is burning coils because he is giving them more power than they can handle which is 100% accurate. He can learn to go easy on the volume knob, buy a smaller amp, or buy more robust woofers or add another coil to better manage heat, or even buy a pre-amp with a compressor.

Your going into this with the assumption that a 2.5" coil can safely handle 1500W (or whatever your buddy has printed on his amp) and any evidence to the contrary you're going to move the goalposts, play "no true Scotsman" and perform various mental gymnastics to discard the fact it the evidence contradicts your theory.

That still doesn't change the fact that I need a HO alt to help stop from square waving my signal, n truth is it was probably a bit of too much power being sent through an unclean signal... But tho subs would have been able to cope far far better if I was having drops down to 10v while being cranked... Also probably would have faired better I I had been on the volume knob n turned it down at the first hint of that nasty coil smell but I was outside videoing n they just cooked... Beside idk for sure but with my gain n stuff set to a little more than 1/3 shouldn't u not even be making close to the max wattage? I'm not entirely sure how that works yet... Or does the bass knob override they gain control on the amp? This I'm also not sure about.

And even further still, I now know I can't go past 40 of 50 especially while parked until I get a HO alt.... But we'll come back to this discussion after I save a bit and get my HO alt n better HU so I can see for myself but I've researched alot about this n I think Jeff hit the nail on the head with what happened, he been guiding me along through most of this build so I think he has more of an idea of what's is going on with the build... Js

 

[LetMyBeatPound]

Also I don't even think they are really damaged too badly they still sound friggin excellent, just at low volume u can hear the coil scratching... One of them has seemed to even wear in n isn't scratching anymore. I think they just got hot n maybe even bottomed out n bent the former a lil n it shorted really good n that's could be what cause caused the burning... Won't know till the new coils come in a weak or 2... But if they did bottom out then I will agree that it was totally just too much power... But with how the power is set up I don't know exactly what happen but tendnto lean toward clipping because of voltage drop because I checked with my DMM n seen it dropping pretty low to low 11's... I was thinking about pulling it n trying to push on the part that is touching but idk if I should mess with it... Frank Yu said to just play em till they die n Re-Cone em...

 

[hispls 5,000+ posts]

That still doesn't change the fact that I need a HO alt to help stop from square waving my signal, n truth is it was probably a bit of too much power being sent through an unclean signal... But tho subs would have been able to cope far far better if I was having drops down to 10v while being cranked... Also probably would have faired better I I had been on the volume knob n turned it down at the first hint of that nasty coil smell but I was outside videoing n they just cooked... Beside idk for sure but with my gain n stuff set to a little more than 1/3 shouldn't u not even be making close to the max wattage? I'm not entirely sure how that works yet... Or does the bass knob override they gain control on the amp? This I'm also not sure about.
And even further still, I now know I can't go past 40 of 50 especially while parked until I get a HO alt.... But we'll come back to this discussion after I save a bit and get my HO alt n better HU so I can see for myself but I've researched alot about this n I think Jeff hit the nail on the head with what happened, he been guiding me along through most of this build so I think he has more of an idea of what's is going on with the build... Js

So you don't think you are getting full power out of your amp but at the same time you believe you are overdriving it into clipping?

Keep up with your theory though and make sure you tell as many people about "clipping" and "clean" and "dirty" power as you can.

For the sake of simplicity, since it seems you don't care to really understand what is going on. You did provide the correct answer in "turn it down when you smell something burning".

If you bottomed out a pair of 18s on 2000W you're doing something terribly wrong and might want to revisit your box design or how to properly use a subsonic filter.

 

[Popwarhomie 5,000+ posts]

No way his 2k amp over powered these subs. After rise he probably isn't even seeing 1500rms. They can take quite a bit of power. I ran my 8, my buddy has 4 of the 15s on a 5k @.5 and his dad has 6 15s on an Orion 8k.

 

[LetMyBeatPound]

So you don't think you are getting full power out of your amp but at the same time you believe you are overdriving it into clipping?
Keep up with your theory though and make sure you tell as many people about "clipping" and "clean" and "dirty" power as you can.

For the sake of simplicity, since it seems you don't care to really understand what is going on. You did provide the correct answer in "turn it down when you smell something burning".

If you bottomed out a pair of 18s on 2000W you're doing something terribly wrong and might want to revisit your box design or how to properly use a subsonic filter.

We we're all incorrect how come it was fine while I was driving around 30-40 mins... When I got home the subs n amp weren't even warm... And with in 5-10 minutes of it playing while it was parked just idling they hot AF n so was the amp... And it wasn't up much louder than when I was driving... tho I had the bass knob from about 50% up to about 80%... But I was playing with that knob burbin it maxed out the whole time I was driving... I had it at it's limit for my setup during cruzing alt amperage, but it could keep up while idling... N clipping doesn't only happen when you apply too much power, also happens when you can't supply enough power the amp n speakers are asking for... ie more power than the amp can handle or more signal than you can power... It's a very fine balencing act that you must find between power, amp, and subs...

 

[LosIsATool 5,000+ posts]

We we're all incorrect how come it was fine while I was driving around 30-40 mins... When I got home the subs n amp weren't even warm... And with in 5-10 minutes of it playing while it was parked just idling they hot AF n so was the amp... And it wasn't up much louder than when I was driving... tho I had the bass knob from about 50% up to about 80%... But I was playing with that knob burbin it maxed out the whole time I was driving... I had it at it's limit for my setup during cruzing alt amperage, but it could keep up while idling... N clipping doesn't only happen when you apply too much power, also happens when you can't supply enough power the amp n speakers are asking for... ie more power than the amp can handle or more signal than you can power... It's a very fine balencing act that you must find between power, amp, and subs...

Yeah. You might want to study a bit. Simple answer, turn it down.

 

[LetMyBeatPound]

Yeah. You might want to study a bit. Simple answer, turn it down.

I know now lol either way, I'm still super happy with how it turned out. ***** I screwed them up right away but I'm basically figuring this out all on my own... They still work ok, and I'll get a lil experience learning to Re-Coning when they come... I didn't think it would be even as close to as loud as it is, it's like 100 times louder than my 4 12s...

Here what it looks like now... Got alot of work to do before it's a final product tho...

It's rough, but it pounds nice https://imgur.com/gallery/Q6Zy3

 

[hispls 5,000+ posts]

And it wasn't up much louder than when I was driving...

And in addition to not understanding what clipping is and how AC power is determines, you don't seem to understand logarithmic scale and how sound intensity works.

Basically you're tooling along playing and your amp is making 1000W. No sweat. Subs could do that all day long, so you give it an extra click on the volume knob which is at least 1.5dB. Now your amp is making 1400W which is right at the edge of what those coils will take for heat without running into trouble... and that's me picking 1000W and only 1.5dB for a nice round number. My Kenwood gives just shy of 2dB per click.... in short, once you get up near your limits you can go from a place where you could play for hours to being in trouble in 5 minutes or less with just one click of the volume knob.

If you're having problems with voltage dipping below 12 with as much battery as you have on deck something is very wrong and I'd suggest having them all load tested.

 

[LetMyBeatPound]

And in addition to not understanding what clipping is and how AC power is determines, you don't seem to understand logarithmic scale and how sound intensity works.
Basically you're tooling along playing and your amp is making 1000W. No sweat. Subs could do that all day long, so you give it an extra click on the volume knob which is at least 1.5dB. Now your amp is making 1400W which is right at the edge of what those coils will take for heat without running into trouble... and that's me picking 1000W and only 1.5dB for a nice round number. My Kenwood gives just shy of 2dB per click.... in short, once you get up near your limits you can go from a place where you could play for hours to being in trouble in 5 minutes or less with just one click of the volume knob.

If you're having problems with voltage dipping below 12 with as much battery as you have on deck something is very wrong and I'd suggest having them all load tested.

Ok, thanks, I'll go have them load tested somewhere... They came from place called Recon Battery Warehouse. Where t hey recondition batteries... I like them cuz all their batteries are free replacement for 6months and then for the next 18months they only will charge you the $12-$15 core to change them out. And good info on how could be fine but one volume up could put you in a bad spot.

Can someone plz point me ti a good amp tuning/system turning video?

And also what are those little bass eq things? Do they change your preamp output voltage? Or what exactly are they?

 

[hispls 5,000+ posts]

Ok, thanks, I'll go have them load tested somewhere... They came from place called Recon Battery Warehouse. Where t hey recondition batteries... I like them cuz all their batteries are free replacement for 6months and then for the next 18months they only will charge you the $12-$15 core to change them out. And good info on how could be fine but one volume up could put you in a bad spot.
Can someone plz point me ti a good amp tuning/system turning video?

And also what are those little bass eq things? Do they change your preamp output voltage? Or what exactly are they?

Might see about getting the alt load tested as well, but I would personally feel OK running a 2K amp @ 1 ohm on stock alt + two 110AH batteries..

Not sure which bass EQ thing you mean, make and model may get some answers.

 

[LetMyBeatPound]

Might see about getting the alt load tested as well, but I would personally feel OK running a 2K amp @ 1 ohm on stock alt + two 110AH batteries..
Not sure which bass EQ thing you mean, make and model may get some answers.

This is something I'm looking at:

Look at this on eBay http://www.ebay.com/itm/221279685849

Its a SoundXtreme Bass Machine Epicenter Bass EQ 15vrm input 13.5vrm out put... So if I understand correctly my pre amp output from my HU goes into this n then to my amp? And will increase my pre amp signal voltage? or will it only put out what it received?

Just thinking instead of replacing my HU yet with something cheap I can invest in something like this so I'll have this also even after I get a new HU I was looking at prs80 n those thing as re a lil pricy or can something like a prs80 or something similar capable of what those do... And on a side note the scratching in the subs is almost gone... Well completely gone in one n the other it's hardly ever noticeable now... Those I still plan to get the Re-Cones ASAP and do them right away. Someone told me that depending how n if they subs en up failing they could damage the amp or the channel...

 

[LosIsATool 5,000+ posts]

This is something I'm looking at:
Look at this on eBay http://www.ebay.com/itm/221279685849

Its a SoundXtreme Bass Machine Epicenter Bass EQ 15vrm input 13.5vrm out put... So if I understand correctly my pre amp output from my HU goes into this n then to my amp? And will increase my pre amp signal voltage? or will it only put out what it received?

Just thinking instead of replacing my HU yet with something cheap I can invest in something like this so I'll have this also even after I get a new HU I was looking at prs80 n those thing as re a lil pricy or can something like a prs80 or something similar capable of what those do... And on a side note the scratching in the subs is almost gone... Well completely gone in one n the other it's hardly ever noticeable now... Those I still plan to get the Re-Cones ASAP and do them right away. Someone told me that depending how n if they subs en up failing they could damage the amp or the channel...

Bruh that that POS out.

Nothing will do what the 80prs will do under a grand but I doubt you need what it can do.

 

[hispls 5,000+ posts]

This is something I'm looking at:
Look at this on eBay http://www.ebay.com/itm/221279685849

Its a SoundXtreme Bass Machine Epicenter Bass EQ 15vrm input 13.5vrm out put... So if I understand correctly my pre amp output from my HU goes into this n then to my amp? And will increase my pre amp signal voltage? or will it only put out what it received?

Just thinking instead of replacing my HU yet with something cheap I can invest in something like this so I'll have this also even after I get a new HU I was looking at prs80 n those thing as re a lil pricy or can something like a prs80 or something similar capable of what those do... And on a side note the scratching in the subs is almost gone... Well completely gone in one n the other it's hardly ever noticeable now... Those I still plan to get the Re-Cones ASAP and do them right away. Someone told me that depending how n if they subs en up failing they could damage the amp or the channel...

I'd avoid anything Soundstream on general principal. Seems like it's trying to be a cheap knockoff of Audiocontrol Epicenter which can be fun, but is completely unnecessary on any modern recordings, does not function as a pre-amp, and IMO can't be toned down enough to really sound natural.

If you listen to music that came out on white cassette tapes or earlier Epicenter or similar will help. I found it really cool on some Parliament tracks. Otherwise it's just nasty on already bass heavy or other modern recordings.

The Zed Audio Ra has similar bass restoration but also a few other handy features and works as a straight pre-amp. I really get a lot of mileage out of mine, but they're not cheap.

Anyway, garbage in/garbage out, and Soundstream makes almost exclusively garbage. IF you feel you need some bass processing wait until you can get into one of the higher end units.

 

[Boomin_tahoe 5,000+ posts]

How did the top baffles end up being short on the right side?