Break in period for subs

[RBarlow]

I'm not going for credibility. I'm not trying to win an argument, simply make my point and be understood. You got me beat with "operating" a 3 million dollar radar, the most expensive machine I operate is roughly 750k. But I'm not an operator, I'm the maintenance guy for all the machines. Commercial equipment is ment to be as easy as possible to operate, so operating a $3m isn't impressive either.

You were in the service, so you get my thanks regardless. You want some cookies? My wife bakes a mean peanut butter cookie I can send a batch your way.

Matt

Lol seriously though now I want peanut butter cookies

 

[RBarlow]

If you’d like to see less of me, why don’t you quit calling me out? You obviously want more if you call me out, but I’m done. I don’t hate anybody, I’m just sharing what I know. You make your own conclusions, and I pay to be a vendor on here. I’m not malicious at all. If people don’t like someone, why continue to talk to them? I just don’t want to argue about this topic anymore, it’s going nowhere. Hope your bass sounds good no matter which way you play it.

Well said at the end of the day eff it ans turn em up!

 

[RBarlow]

You can turn the gain down or even turn down the subwoofer output level on the head unit.

I see people thinking they need to wire higher to get less power all the time.

Yeah u are right and really I'm only wiring up to see if I can hear some kind of difference at higher ohms I'm still kind of confused on the the dvc I get that it gives more wiring options but is that the only reason my thoughts it be better have 2 instead of one but then I think we'll it can only play one note at a time so really doesn't matter and if they are that much better then what's the reason to even make svc subs anymore? So basically I'm just experimenting

 

[RBarlow]

You can turn the gain down or even turn down the subwoofer output level on the head unit.

I see people thinking they need to wire higher to get less power all the time.

Yeah u are right and really I'm only wiring up to see if I can hear some kind of difference at higher ohms I'm still kind of confused on the the dvc I get that it gives more wiring options but is that the only reason my thoughts it be better have 2 instead of one but then I think we'll it can only play one note at a time so really doesn't matter and if they are that much better then what's the reason to even make svc subs anymore? So basically I'm just experimenting

 

[Buck 5,000+ posts]

That is 100% a manufacturing defect if that separates in 5 minutes or 5 years regardless of what you're doing with it. I've personally only had that sort of failure on subs I've built with old/expired glue. When built correctly with fresh glue that should require a chisel to get apart and then an angle grinder to clean the glue off the landing. Notice that when Sundown had the first gen X subs fail at the surround to frame joint they just sorted their **** out with their build house in China and made good on replacing all the defective subs that failed.

Again, words words words and no data. None of what you posted is doing anything to further anybody's understanding of this topic, you're only helping perpetuate industry myths and snake oil.


It pretty well jumped the shark when you implied you can hear the difference in how loud something is today over what it was a couple months ago.


But not too busy to reply to this thread 30 times, just too busy to reply with any data to back up your claims.

Like I say, I didn't carry around a camera during my entire time having these experiences.

Sub defects happen. I've seen it a lot. My thought is that if you could break in a sub, and use it, when it would break itself if it didn't do that, then that would save people money. That's really the only reason I would say that.

No it's not. It's not jumping the shark. I don't get how you don't understand this:

I've played subs. New subs. I've had new subs and so have systems I've worked on, and I know or knew the owners <- that's easy to understand.

I've had subs, and others have had subs, that I've either built a box for, installed, tuned, where I've been a part of the install, in some fashion. <- easy to understand

My ears, and many of the ears that I was working with, or helping work on their systems, we have all heard subwoofers not be able to play certain notes away from tuning frequency, when a sub is brand new. Right? That easy to understand. <-brand new subs, noticed playable bandwidth when the sub was freshly installed in vehicle in box, with zero play time.

Test tones, we know exactly what frequencies the subs is playing. Some subs, after playing for a while, will extend their bandwidth of playable notes. I've tested this with test tones. I don't need a meter to know when a sub is actually playing a note or not. You can watch the vehicle flex, you can clearly hear when a subwoofer is struggling to play a note. With some subwoofers, especially higher powered woofers, I have seen these woofers be able to play further and further away from Fs and box tuning with more play time. That's scientific, because I tested it with test tones.

For example: you have say a single 15 in a trunk tuned to 32 hz. That 15, when it was new, would move some playing 28 hz, but wasn't grabbing the note, it was not playing the note with any authority. After playing music on this subwoofer over a period of time, the subwoofer was able to play 28 hz with great authority (depends on specifics of each system), seemingly because the spider had loosened up. That makes sense logically, because low notes extend in one direction longer, due to the longer wavelength and the duration of the push of the cone, due to the polarity staying either positive or negative for longer than it would with say a 60 hz note. Wavelength gets exponentially longer as you go down in frequency, which means your sub tries to push the cone out for an exponentially longer time with the lower and lower you play.

Super stiff spiders impede, sometimes, a woofer's ability to reproduce low notes, away from tuning frequency, because the motor structure and coil setup and power levels aren't great enough to properly push through the stiffness of the suspension, if the woofer is brand new (or a bad design like my proto CT Sounds 18's that I was given).

This doesn't always happen, and if it does, it's usually it's very very mild, unnoticeable. ONLY IN SOME FEW CASES have I had issues with higher power woofers not playing their full expected bandwidth, until they broke in a little. ONCE AGAIN, I REPEAT, THIS ISN'T SUPER COMMON, AND IT'S USUALLY AN ISSUE WITH SYSTEMS INHERENTLY DESIGNED TO REPRODUCE LOW FREQUENCIES, LOWER THAN MOST WOULD CONSIDER DAILY. Since I do design for people like this, we always keep in mind sub stiffness, just in case, so that way we don't try to play way below the subs Fs too early.

Mostly I have seen this cause heat issues, where the sub needs to break in a little before you play lows super hard, because the coil isn't cooling itself super well, due to limited cone travel, due to spider stiffness, with high powered woofers playing low notes. It's just something you have to watch for. You have to be in tune with your system, and know what it's doing, and spot any issues.

My answer still is: if you have a question about breaking in a woofer, it's not going to hurt to do it. The whole point of this is for people to learn how to handle their systems themselves, and come to their own determinations that make sense to them. You may not need it, and that's fine if you don't. I haven't needed it in a lot of situations. There are some situations where I absolutely have made sure a woofer isn't too stiff, before I or someone I work with gives the woofer full power (or well over full power), because of the types of boxes some of these woofers are in, and how the boxes are tuned, power levels, and what they're being used for. The type of box a woofer is in obviously greatly affects the way it plays. So, with really big power and big systems, we just like to make sure we don't hurt the woofers. That's all it is. I designed for people who are trying to play below 20 hz sometimes.

It's so much fun, and f*ck you if you don't like it and then complain to me that you don't like it. It's not your decision to make; it's my decision and the decision of the owners. This is my life and I do what I want, and I'll design whatever people want me to, because it's super fun not to be a close minded audio person. So, if you're playing super duper low, you might consider watching your subs when you first play them, and make sure they're moving well, before giving it tons of power. A lot of my designs with super low bass are being ran waayyyy over rated power, for SPL reasons. We just like to make sure everything goes ok. Taking it slow with new woofers and new systems isn't bad advice lol, not bad advice at all, and that's probably part of the mind state behind breaking woofers in.

Do whatever you'd like to with your subs and system. I hope all goes well with your bass, please share your experiences on here, so that others can learn from you, to empower their own audio knowledge. May the Bass Gods bless you with broken cart parts!

 

[Kickstand Premium Member]

I can't believe everyone has their panties so twisted about this.
Are we really sitting here trying to say that breaking in your subs is a bad thing?
I choose to break in my subs like I choose to go easy on my car engine for the first 5000 km.
Change the oil and then slowly start to bring the RPM's up
Or at 40+ I choose to stretch before I step out onto the pitch
If I don't I pull something or at the least I am sore as hell the next day.
Should I just redline the car coming out of the dealership parking lot?
So I'll compromise a bit and say in some cases it's not really needed
But is it doing harm?
When your dropping $1500-2000 worth of subs in the trunk is it that bad to be cautious with them.
Unless of course you have one of those money trees growing in your backyard.
If so please post your address so we can all be careless about the money we spend.

 

[hispls 5,000+ posts]

Yeah u are right and really I'm only wiring up to see if I can hear some kind of difference at higher ohms I'm still kind of confused on the the dvc I get that it gives more wiring options but is that the only reason my thoughts it be better have 2 instead of one but then I think we'll it can only play one note at a time so really doesn't matter and if they are that much better then what's the reason to even make svc subs anymore? So basically I'm just experimenting

We use DVC primarily for more impedance options for the end user for less coil options needed by the manufacturer. In extreme conditions DVC may have a slight edge in durability as the coil lead is about the weakest link on the coil so 4 would carry double the current of 2 before failure, but this should be a non-issue at any honest rated power.

This is my life and I do what I want

No skin off my nose if you decide you must take your new sub out to a stone circle at the first full moon of autumn, put on flip flops and a yellow raincoat, and dance around it 10 times while eating a sausage chanting "say it now, and say it proud, I am gay and I am proud!" but if you claim that's going to provide some audible difference I'm going to call ******** until you post up some Termlab or RTA numbers.

So, if you're playing super duper low, you might consider watching your subs when you first play them, and make sure they're moving well,

I always try to push mine up to x-mech right out the gate after I build them in order to spot any weak links. As far as I'm concerned if they're going to break in the first few minutes they're going to break at the same point in 3 weeks, 3 months, or 3 years, or whenever I push them that hard again. Any glue joint failures is on the assembly or the glue used and can be easily remedied before putting the gorilla tape around the edges of the frames (gains me a couple tenths consistently in current wall).

Honestly I'd do the same if I bought a brand new sub. If that **** is going to break let's get it returned and get a properly made one ASAP.

Also interesting that nobody has mentioned mids or tweeters here either. The home theater type guys swearing up and down about the need to "break in" this have a pretty convincing line of pseudo science and logical sounding explanations for that.

 

[Buck 5,000+ posts]

No skin off my nose if you decide you must take your new sub out to a stone circle at the first full moon of autumn, put on flip flops and a yellow raincoat, and dance around it 10 times while eating a sausage chanting "say it now, and say it proud, I am gay and I am proud!" but if you claim that's going to provide some audible difference I'm going to call ******** until you post up some Termlab or RTA numbers.

I'm not going to respond to this degenerate statement. This is nothing but putting fuel on a fire, and quite frankly, it's a lie to say it like that. Absolutely ridiculous.

 

[metalheadjoe 10+ year member]

I'm not going for credibility. I'm not trying to win an argument, simply make my point and be understood. You got me beat with "operating" a 3 million dollar radar, the most expensive machine I operate is roughly 750k. But I'm not an operator, I'm the maintenance guy for all the machines. Commercial equipment is ment to be as easy as possible to operate, so operating a $3m isn't impressive either.

You were in the service, so you get my thanks regardless. You want some cookies? My wife bakes a mean peanut butter cookie I can send a batch your way.

Matt

I don't think it is easy to get into my MOS (14J).

Sorry for

I have seen and heard all of those things happen. It’s not a guarantee. If you could read, then you would see my position. You just want to argue.

It’s not thinking, it’s knowing, you’re just an ass. I have very good ears for audio. I can hear very distinct differences. Not to mention, you can clearly tell when a sub starts hitting notes permanently where it didn’t before after a certain amount of playing, sometimes that is over months, for daily users. Not everybody plays music every day, sometimes for a sub like a DD 9500, it has taken months and it’s very clear and many, many people have experienced that. You don’t have the knowledge of what other people can hear, you f*cktard. How dense are you? Do you have telepathy? Let me know if you do, then I’ll believe you know how my ears and everybody else’s ears in the world work. Because that’s what you’re saying. You’re telling me not to believe my ears. Like how’s that working out for you? Is that ever going to workout, do you think? Will you just go ahead and call everybody who’s heard different noises than you an idiot, please? Let’s just get that out of the way. I’ll say it for you, if you won’t.

I have seen spiders lift straight off spider landings on brand new woofers. Like not part of it, I’ve seen the whole spider pop off at once. That’s happens for a multitude of reasons, and I know that having a stiff spider sometimes is 100% a contribution factor to that issue. It doesn’t matter WHY it happens, it matter if you can avoid it and knowing when and how. It’s not as simple as just stiffness, but it’s a contributing factor.


Sorry that I’m too busy working and concentrating on money and my performance as a worker to video record my entire life, just so I can prove my experiences to you. I don’t owe you evidence for my opinion. This is a lot of experience, over many years. The above paragraph doesn’t happen very often, but if it does, you’d want to possibly be able to avoid it.

My answer is: figure out break-in or not for yourself, and make sure you have fun doing it. I had fun learning about it, even if I do essentially get called retarded for having real life experiences

I mean how ludicrous is this conversation, really? I’ll put on my bib and my diaper, and you can spoon feed me, how about that?

I’m done, that’s my answers. You can pick it apart until whenever you want. Sorry for sharing my actual life experiences

Man you have to realize what hispls is saying: humans can create tools that are far more sensitive than our built-in senses. If something is audible, it's certainly measurable, so why hasn't it been measured? If there evidence is there, why isn't there any evidence?

 

[Buck 5,000+ posts]

I don't think it is easy to get into my MOS (14J).

Sorry for

Man you have to realize what hispls is saying: humans can create tools that are far more sensitive than our built-in senses. If something is audible, it's certainly measurable, so why hasn't it been measured? If there evidence is there, why isn't there any evidence?

I think because it's so obviously audible. I don't have measurement tools, I'm not sure if I've said that or not. It's not a hard thing to understand really, with a little experience, so I don't think people concentrate on it too much. Many people in the industry are busy that I know, so I just don't think anybody cares really. It's not going to push product. It seems like it's largely settled; I would say follow what your manufacturer says. Or, do whatever you want, and experiment for yourself.

Tools are more sensitive than ears, for sure, and you can really understand the nature of reality with sensitive tools, but it doesn't change the fact that our ears are what matter most.

 

[metalheadjoe 10+ year member]

Tools are more sensitive than ears, for sure, and you can really understand the nature of reality with sensitive tools, but it doesn't change the fact that our ears are what matter most.

Depends on the situation. Spl guys would say the sensor matters most. Hispls is obviously an spl guy. You both can be right.

 

[Buck 5,000+ posts]

Depends on the situation. Spl guys would say the sensor matters most. Hispls is obviously an spl guy. You both can be right.

I know, that's what I've been saying for a very long time, I believe. I know as a mostly music dude, you can hear whatever you need to. I don't tune with equipment either; I just tune with the amplifier or system voltage and with my ears. Some people do it all with tools. Idc, it's fun no matter what.

 

[SlugButter]

Burned out my little Dayton 8 inch yesterday while breaking it in (which is more just just a break in for my ears to see what a new sub is capable of). I was running it through my playlist of metal, classic rock and rap so I could get it moving fast on one song and play deep rap bass the next. I was so impressed at what this single 8 inch was doing on lows……and I fvcked it over hardcore. I just thought I would share the irony of burning out my sub during my usual break in ritual. Pulling the sub out of the box this morning to see the damage.

 

[hispls 5,000+ posts]

Depends on the situation. Spl guys would say the sensor matters most. Hispls is obviously an spl guy. You both can be right.

We have other tools such as Klippel and RTA, but the most precise way to measure output at high intensity below 100hz is with Termlab. And serious competitors in SQ and SPL live by RTA and Termlab numbers and very often keep careful notes. It is telling that 20+ years of people competing with DD subs and none of them has recorded any testing data showing some significant gains happening from some break-in ritual or otherwise gaining over time without changing any other variables. This has to be the best kept secret since the Manhattan Project, possibly better because it has stayed secret longer.

Notice we're already getting into some light backpedaling here "well it doesn't hurt to be safe" and "it doesn't matter if we can't measure it, as long as I tell myself something sounds different".

Tools are more sensitive than ears, for sure, and you can really understand the nature of reality with sensitive tools, but it doesn't change the fact that our ears are what matter most.

The absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence, amirite?

 

[Kickstand Premium Member]

My god, this thread
hispls you should meet my girl
She thinks arguing is a sport too
You guys would get along.