Are Entry-Level DSPs Any Good?

[Ruggie74]

Hello,

I've got some decent speakers in my car, but I feel like my head-unit isn't giving me the level of control I want. My question is, will an inexpensive DSP sound better than the passive crossovers of expensive speakers? I have JL Audio ZR650-csi components in the front and C5-650x coaxials in the rear. What do you guys think?

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[blazian87 10+ year member]

Hello,

I've got some decent speakers in my car, but I feel like my head-unit isn't giving me the level of control I want. My question is, will an inexpensive DSP sound better than the passive crossovers of expensive speakers? I have JL Audio ZR650-csi components in the front and C5-650x coaxials in the rear. What do you guys think?

I would have to say yes it would make it sound better. A typical headunit almost have no control vs practically any dsp inexpensive or not. Which DSP are you looking at specifically?

 

[Ruggie74]

I would have to say yes it would make it sound better. A typical headunit almost have no control vs practically any dsp inexpensive or not. Which DSP are you looking at specifically?

Thanks for your input! Actually, the only DSP I know about is the JL Audio Twk-88. I only know about JL stuff because my friend used to work for them and he helps me out. Perhaps you might be knowledgeable on recommending some cheaper alternatives?

I also have one more question: will a DSP give me full control over my component speakers in the front? Like, will I be able to adjust crossovers for BOTH the mid-woofer AND tweeter drivers of my ZR650-csi components (and of course my rear coaxial speakers and single 10" subwoofer)? I'm a little confused how that works because it was my understanding that the DSP takes RCA inputs (not speaker wire), so I don't know how the DSP would differentiate between mid-woofers and tweeters in a component set. Mid-woofers and tweeters would seemingly be connected to the exact same input on the DSP, so how does it know what signal to send to the tweeter and what signal to send to the mid-woofer? My headunit has RCA stereo outputs Front, Rear, and Subwoofer.

Thanks for any info you may be able to provide, and sorry for my ignorance!

 

[nauc 10+ year member]

what deck, sub and amps you using? what dont you like about your setups sound?

 

[Ruggie74]

what deck, sub and amps you using? what dont you like about your setups sound?

Pioneer AVH 5500 BHS I believe is the headunit designation. JL10w7ae-3 subwoofer and JL HD 600/4 and 1200/1 amps. I find that there's a lot of shrill frequencies that I would like more control over. I've played around with tweeter position and tried adjusting the pins on the crossovers for the midwoofers and the tweeters, played around with crossover points and polarity, and done all I can with the VERY limited 7-band EQ on my headunit. It just isn't to my liking and I have trouble getting rid of some of the harsher frequencies while still maintaining clarity. Plus, I would really like to have full control over time delay. My headunit offers a very barebones L/R panning-style delay that is acceptable, but I want more.

 

[nauc 10+ year member]

you using compressed audio files?

 

[trumpet 5,000+ posts]

Yes, a programmable DSP will allow full crossover control over your mids and tweeters separately. What you understand to do with that new power makes all the difference.

 

[Ruggie74]

you using compressed audio files?

Not a chance! I don't even let people play them in my car hahaha!

 

[BCotrell]

You have a hu that likely puts out a strong signal and is 4v.

check out the Dayton dsp 408. That takes care of all you need on a budget.

a dsp isn’t going to do much when you’re running a passive crossover. ditch the passive crossovers from the Comp set and run the tweeters and mids off each channel of that amp.You don’t even need to run the coaxials. I would bet you’ll get louder, clearer highs, and better midbass.

 

[Ruggie74]

You have a hu that likely puts out a strong signal and is 4v.

check out the Dayton dsp 408. That takes care of all you need on a budget.

a dsp isn’t going to do much when you’re running a passive crossover. ditch the passive crossovers from the Comp set and run the tweeters and mids off each channel of that amp.You don’t even need to run the coaxials. I would bet you’ll get louder, clearer highs, and better midbass.

Thanks for your feedback! Sorry if this is a stupid question, but wouldn't it be kind of pointless to only apply a processor to 1/3 of your system? I figured that even without the active crossover feature of a DSP, just the time delay feature itself for all of my speakers (fronts, rears, sub) would dramatically increase the sound quality. It seems counter intuitive to me to only apply that (and of course, the active crossover points) to the front speakers, but I admittedly don't have a clue! Is there something I'm overlooking in that regard? Thanks again for your suggestions.

 

[BCotrell]

Basic Active 3 way will takes your system 5 channel.. front (tweeters channel 1&2), middle (front midbass channel 3&4) and rear (sub). Time alignment on the tweeters and midbass will make some significant improvements as will having separate filters on each speaker set (including both high pass and low pass on the mids) and a customizable crossover point for the mid and tweeter. That control of frequencies to each speaker will allow you to send more power to each speaker ( the value of each speaker to each channel of the amp)

also coaxials in rear doors do nothing Positive to soundstage.... absolutely nothing

Take a real swing at improvement. Ditch the coaxials and go to a basic 3 way active.That dsp is all you need...and a few additional rcas

 

[blazian87 10+ year member]

Thanks for your feedback! Sorry if this is a stupid question, but wouldn't it be kind of pointless to only apply a processor to 1/3 of your system? I figured that even without the active crossover feature of a DSP, just the time delay feature itself for all of my speakers (fronts, rears, sub) would dramatically increase the sound quality. It seems counter intuitive to me to only apply that (and of course, the active crossover points) to the front speakers, but I admittedly don't have a clue! Is there something I'm overlooking in that regard? Thanks again for your suggestions.

You won't be able to fully utilize the time delay feature without going full active (ditching the passive x/o's). The only time delay you can do is left and right... which isn't very much control. You can already do that with a normal headunit. What about controlling your tweeters and mids reaching your ears at the same time? The rears will only distract your front stage if you're trying to achieve a centered stage. The leap from passive to active is already worth it. It's not just the time alignment and EQ although they do help. It's a night and day difference that's for sure.

 

[SkizeR 10+ year member]

Sorry to be that guy, but theres a lot of not so great info in here. More so just generalized regurgitated **** that someone read and pieced together from various forums.

1) A DSP does not make anything sound better or worse (see below)
2) compressed or uncompressed files don't even belong in this discussion. Not even close
3) even with passives, a dsp will be a GREAT improvement over a head unit on its own
4) rear speakers do not negatively effect staging/imaging/tonality/impact/dynamics when done right. People saying "toss them" are the same people that are reading and regurgitating and their recommendations should be taken with a grain of salt
5) signal delay on left vs right is the most important, especially considering that you are new to this. At higher frequencies, phase/timing isn't that important, amplitude is. I am willing to bet that you OP, as a newbie to DSP's and tuning, wont even notice much of a difference in going active vs passive on this setup with a proper tune UNLESS something is out of the ordinary that requires a lot of tuning work. doubtful on that last part though. For your situation, set signal delay to the midrange drivers, take your measurements and do your eq and use the RTA to verify that the mid to tweeter crossover is in phase. do this by swapping tweeter polarity at the crossover and compare measurements. Im actually making a video on verifying phase cohesion as we speak, but i messed up my screen recording so i have to re-do it tomorrow

That said, a DSP on its own does nothing. Its what you can do with its features that make the difference. Cheaper processors are usually ok if you are using an aftermarket radio, and arent trying to dive to deep into what is possible. In your case, something with more robust EQ is going to give you a massive improvement on its own IF you know how to utilize it properly. Yes, even with passive crossovers. From there, you can ditch the passives and you can adjust timing and crossovers on the mid to tweeter separately to get better phase cohesion.

 

[BCotrell]

Sorry to be that guy, but theres a lot of not so great info in here. More so just generalized regurgitated **** that someone read and pieced together from various forums.

1) A DSP does not make anything sound better or worse (see below)
2) compressed or uncompressed files don't even belong in this discussion. Not even close
3) even with passives, a dsp will be a GREAT improvement over a head unit on its own
4) rear speakers do not negatively effect staging/imaging/tonality/impact/dynamics when done right. People saying "toss them" are the same people that are reading and regurgitating and their recommendations should be taken with a grain of salt
5) signal delay on left vs right is the most important, especially considering that you are new to this. At higher frequencies, phase/timing isn't that important, amplitude is. I am willing to bet that you OP, as a newbie to DSP's and tuning, wont even notice much of a difference in going active vs passive on this setup with a proper tune UNLESS something is out of the ordinary that requires a lot of tuning work. doubtful on that last part though. For your situation, set signal delay to the midrange drivers, take your measurements and do your eq and use the RTA to verify that the mid to tweeter crossover is in phase. do this by swapping tweeter polarity at the crossover and compare measurements. Im actually making a video on verifying phase cohesion as we speak, but i messed up my screen recording so i have to re-do it tomorrow

That said, a DSP on its own does nothing. Its what you can do with its features that make the difference. Cheaper processors are usually ok if you are using an aftermarket radio, and arent trying to dive to deep into what is possible. In your case, something with more robust EQ is going to give you a massive improvement on its own IF you know how to utilize it properly. Yes, even with passive crossovers. From there, you can ditch the passives and you can adjust timing and crossovers on the mid to tweeter separately to get better phase cohesion.

A dsp does nothing on its own...no **** sherlock! Your long ass response was nothing different than What others have said.
- His unit doesn’t have network, the dsp gets him there.
- he outlines his current gear you just weren’t paying attention. with the dsp..The idea of running passive comps with coaxials in the rear vs Maximizing impact of dsp by scrapping the coaxials and committing the four channels to the separate front drivers is a no brainer.
-He’s not a slow...he understands he’ll still have to tune it

 

[trumpet 5,000+ posts]

A dsp does nothing on its own...no **** sherlock! Your long ass response was nothing different than What others have said.
- His unit doesn’t have network, the dsp gets him there.
- he outlines his current gear you just weren’t paying attention. with the dsp..The idea of running passive comps with coaxials in the rear vs Maximizing impact of dsp by scrapping the coaxials and committing the four channels to the separate front drivers is a no brainer.
-He’s not a slow...he understands he’ll still have to tune it

Settle down, you're talking to someone who has hands on experience with likely nearly every programmable DSP sold currently.