anyone else think isreal is trippin?

[RangerMan Premium Member]

That picture wasn't meant to show the Arab nation's might over Israel, it was meant to show how silly the Arab world looks when they want Israel wiped off the map for taking Arab land.
LOL trust me I'm definately pro Israel on this one, not only because of the facts behind the conflict, but also because my father was a tank driver for the IDF.

Werd. Sorry for the misinterpretation. It baffles me how the Palestinians continue to toy with Israel...a more technilogically advanced country who has almost been pushed to the edge.

 

[snb778 5,000+ posts]

didnt israel get attacked first.

 

[DBfan187 5,000+ posts]

The violence began Wednesday when Hezbollah forces crossed into Israel, killing three soldiers and abducting two others.

Yes.

 

[RangerMan Premium Member]

didnt israel get attacked first.

On more than one occasion.

 

[Wonderbread 5,000+ posts]

Well, there's lots to respond to, but I'll go over the short ones first. newtitan, you'll get yours in a second.

Rangerman - I don't believe you. Did this really just happen? Glad to see I can be seen as a logical, coherent person from time to time.

Fancynapkin - Why don't the surrounding arab states take in Palestinian refugees? Because they simply don't give a shit about the Palestinians. The only reason they have united is in the face of the Jews. They only have Islam and a general hatred of Jews and Israel to bind them together.

It's clear they don't want peace, if they did, we would be so much farther along the path to a potential peace in the region.

snb778 - Every war that Israel has EVER been involved in has been fought in "self-defence", at least from the Israeli standpoint. There are a few cases of pre-emptive wars and then this cluster****, but all have been claimed as self-defence against active or eminent attacks. Even this shitstorm is in response to aggressions against Israel.

My whole issue is the way that Palestinians fight this battle and then sit back and try and claim that Israel is the "monster" and "evil" and what not.

Oh, folks - anyone who has about 20 minutes or whatever, check this out... quite interesting. - http://video.google.ca/videoplay?docid=-4329216116050129838&q=pallywood

 

[Wonderbread 5,000+ posts]

Now, newtitan, it's your turn.

1) Did you really just call 9/11 a genocide? I really hope you didnt, but if you did you've just lost a LOT of credibility in any further discussion. That was clearly not an act of genocide. It was a horrible, awful act of terrorism on a civillian target - more closely related to any number of homicide bombings that Palestinians have performed over the years than to the Holocaust.

2) They're not necessarily trying to displace people, they're actually working towards a 2 state solution through bilateral and multilateral talks. The Palestinians simply don't believe that the Jews should exist, let alone in that part of the world.

3) Present day Jews (when you say Israelis, you mean Jews, admit it) absolutely have as much a claim to the land as Palestinians do. They have documented historical and archaelogical links to the area that clearly predate anything the Muslims or Christians have. Does this give contemporary Jewry a right? I would say so. Judaism is, like most religions, a tradition set passed through a common bloodline. To use a quote from an awful, awful man, "a jew is a jew is a jew, down to the third generation." Jews today are, generally, jews because their ancestors were Jews. Virtually the entire Jewish population lived in Israel following their exodus from Egypt well before the birth of Christ.

3 (your #2 I suppose) Let me give you a quick bit of history. Jews lived there. Jews were exiled into the diaspora. Jews were slaughtered en masse simply because they were Jewish. Jews returned en masse to the land they once called home. The UN and Britain said "This is yours, it always was yours." Jews were given a small portion of land, primarilly swamp land and agriculturally useless land. They then purchased (we were good at math and business even then) vast amounts of land LEGALLY from the inhabitant Arabs. Following 1967, and the Six-day war, Jordanians, Syrians and other assorted Arabs decided, "hey, we didn't REALLY want to sell you our land. Give it back or we'll blow you up." Israel told them to **** right off and proceeded to defend their land.

4) I don't think that Palestinians really want to be under a socialist regime, do they? Don't try and play this off as some sort of economic rebellion against the invading Western Neoliberal ideology. It's a war of hate, plain and simple. Israel has repeatedly been offered a solution which includes an unoccupied Palestinian state. They have refused. I think the Israeli government has been surprisingly generous towards the Palestinian population as they could VERY VERY easily decide to simply roll over and push them into the Mediterranean.

Can I go to bed now?

 

[Slammed 5,000+ posts]

I was going to start a thread similar to this a couple of days ago

I believe Israel is breaking international law and they are using this as an excuse to start a war.

If a country kidnapped a couple of American soldiers, are we going to bomb that country?

Israel wants to start shyt with Syria and Iran as well...will the US back them up?

Another question...do you know why most Middle Eastern countries hate us so much?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060714/pl_nm/mideast_un_gaza_dc_4;_ylt=AnkNBZsYHh9xkbpLXPVGxykUvioA;_ylu=X3oDMTBiMW04NW9mBHNlYwMlJVRPUCUl

 

[Slammed 5,000+ posts]

Now, newtitan, it's your turn.
1) Did you really just call 9/11 a genocide? I really hope you didnt, but if you did you've just lost a LOT of credibility in any further discussion. That was clearly not an act of genocide. It was a horrible, awful act of terrorism on a civillian target - more closely related to any number of homicide bombings that Palestinians have performed over the years than to the Holocaust.

...but havent Jews killed innocents with their bombings? Both sides are wrong with their use of force,

2) They're not necessarily trying to displace people, they're actually working towards a 2 state solution through bilateral and multilateral talks. The Palestinians simply don't believe that the Jews should exist, let alone in that part of the world.

The US established the Jewish State where Muslims were already living. If FDR lived for the 4th term, he wouldnt have let this happen (research the meeting with King Abdul Aziz ). I do not believe that the Jewish State shouldve been established there. Didnt Herzl believe that the Jews couldve lived elsewhere?

3) Present day Jews (when you say Israelis, you mean Jews, admit it) absolutely have as much a claim to the land as Palestinians do. They have documented historical and archaelogical links to the area that clearly predate anything the Muslims or Christians have. Does this give contemporary Jewry a right? I would say so. Judaism is, like most religions, a tradition set passed through a common bloodline. To use a quote from an awful, awful man, "a jew is a jew is a jew, down to the third generation." Jews today are, generally, jews because their ancestors were Jews. Virtually the entire Jewish population lived in Israel following their exodus from Egypt well before the birth of Christ.

Ok...the bible states the descendants of Abraham were promised the land....which includes many people of today. What if the Native Americans believed that the United States was their promised land? Should we give it back?

3 (your #2 I suppose) Let me give you a quick bit of history. Jews lived there. Jews were exiled into the diaspora. Jews were slaughtered en masse simply because they were Jewish. Jews returned en masse to the land they once called home. The UN and Britain said "This is yours, it always was yours." Jews were given a small portion of land, primarilly swamp land and agriculturally useless land. They then purchased (we were good at math and business even then) vast amounts of land LEGALLY from the inhabitant Arabs. Following 1967, and the Six-day war, Jordanians, Syrians and other assorted Arabs decided, "hey, we didn't REALLY want to sell you our land. Give it back or we'll blow you up." Israel told them to **** right off and proceeded to defend their land.

True....but I think you should do more research on why GB gave the land to the Jews. Also, Im surprised you didnt mention the U.S. Without Truman, the Jewish State would have not been.

4) I don't think that Palestinians really want to be under a socialist regime, do they? Don't try and play this off as some sort of economic rebellion against the invading Western Neoliberal ideology. It's a war of hate, plain and simple. Israel has repeatedly been offered a solution which includes an unoccupied Palestinian state. They have refused. I think the Israeli government has been surprisingly generous towards the Palestinian population as they could VERY VERY easily decide to simply roll over and push them into the Mediterranean.

Unfortunately, there will never be peace.

Israel has been generous, I agree......

Can I go to bed now?

//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/tongue.gif.6130eb82179565f6db8d26d6001dcd24.gif

edit:

not trying to start a war with you man...just stating my views //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif

 

[crazybang]

there trippin alright

 

[Hundreth 10+ year member]

I was going to start a thread similar to this a couple of days ago

I believe Israel is breaking international law and they are using this as an excuse to start a war.

If a country kidnapped a couple of American soldiers, are we going to bomb that country?

Israel wants to start shyt with Syria and Iran as well...will the US back them up?

Another question...do you know why most Middle Eastern countries hate us so much?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060714/pl_nm/mideast_un_gaza_dc_4;_ylt=AnkNBZsYHh9xkbpLXPVGxykUvioA;_ylu=X3oDMTBiMW04NW9mBHNlYwMlJVRPUCUl

From that same website:

But Israeli Ambassador Dan Gillerman asked the other governments present how they would have reacted had their neighbors fired rockets at their people and infiltrated their territory to seize soldiers.
"Would you just sit back and take it or would you do exactly what Israel is doing at this very minute -- making every effort to protect its people and allow them to live in the peace and security they long for," he said.

"For us, every dead Palestinian child is a mistake and a tragedy. For them, every dead Israeli child is a victory and a cause for celebration," Gillerman said.

Its exactly like Wonderbread said, this entire "fishing for a war" bs is not because of this one isolated incident with the capture of a "couple of soldiers." It is because of many things leading up to this. Its pretty amazing how you can just call them "a couple of soldiers." I don't think you realize how small Israel is compared to other nations, every soldier to them is a HUGE deal.

Also like Wonderbread said, if you keep messing with the big bully on the block, they will eventually get up and show you whats what.

As far as the "start shit with Syria and Iran" crapola, they don't start shit with anyone, they simply respond to built up tension. You are talking about nations that publicly announce that Israel should be wiped off the map. If Iran publicly announced they would wipe the US off the map if they had the chance... would you sit back and wait?

 

[Slammed 5,000+ posts]

Its exactly like Wonderbread said, this entire "fishing for a war" bs is not because of this one isolated incident with the capture of a "couple of soldiers." It is because of many things leading up to this. Its pretty amazing how you can just call them "a couple of soldiers." I don't think you realize how small Israel is compared to other nations, every soldier to them is a HUGE deal.

You didnt answer my initial question.....

Im not saying that its "just couple of soldiers"...human life is pricelss. But, what I am questioning is: should any other country start a war over a kidnapping? Israel is bombing countries man! Killing innocents! This shouldnt be happening! There should be another way of recovering these soldiers.

As far as the "start shit with Syria and Iran" crapola, they don't start shit with anyone, they simply respond to built up tension. You are talking about nations that publicly announce that Israel should be wiped off the map. If Iran publicly announced they would wipe the US off the map if they had the chance... would you sit back and wait?

Oh...like those countries dont threaten the US? Should we bomb them as well?

Threats shouldnt lead to war!

BTW.....Im not defending Syria's or Iran's actions.

Israel may be a small nation but they have an organized army and US technology. They also have the United States backing them up. One can see Israel's strength with their past wars.

 

[Hundreth 10+ year member]

You didnt answer my initial question.....
Im not saying that its just couple of soldiers...human life is pricelss. But, what I stating is would any other country start a war over a kidnapping? Israel is bombing countries man! Killing innocents! This shouldnt be happening! There should be another way of recovering these soldiers.

Oh...like those countries dont threaten the US? Should we bomb them as well?

Threats shouldnt lead to war!

BTW.....Im not defending Syria's or Iran's actions.

I don't think you can break this down into "would any other country?" Its a pretty complex conflict and you know it. Its not about them kidnapping a couple of soldiers, its about making the point that this won't be tolerated. Israel is trying to show the terrorist organizations that there will be consequences for "their" people when they pull shit. If they actually gave a shit about "their people" they would choose a different route, but its clear they don't.

Your right, there should be another way, but there isn't. You can't negotiate with terrorists, it doesn't work man.

As far as other countries threatening the US, theres a difference between a few terrorist groups making threats and the legitimate government of a nation making threats. If Saddam flat out said "We want the U.S. wiped off the map" hell yea we should take action!

EDIT: one more thing, Israel takes every measure possible not to kill innocents.

 

[AcidicDreams 10+ year member]

Here's the root of the problem

A) Both sides are backed by their own religions.

B) Both sides are backed by major powers. Isreal by the only super power.

C) Both sides are fighting incompatible wars. Guerillas will not defeat armies of countries who don't answer to whiny populations such as ours. Armies have yet to overcome a guerilla movment by *****footing around.

D) Both sides have good reason to fight for their land. If I were a party on either side I'd fight like hell to keep my land

E) Whoever can put the most firepower on a patch of land owns it. If you can't defend it, it's not yours. (yes screw the natives)

F) The only solutions are a miraculous and altogether impossible peace. Genocide, this can be either side to the point they move. Finally an iron fisted secular world government with it's base in Jerusalem, then no religion "owns" it.

In any case you might as well be preparing for WWIII. If you've studied the pre-wwii years you can see the same shit happening all over again...

 

[AcidicDreams 10+ year member]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/5177178.stm
opinions, thaughts?

I think there on slippery slope to war //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/crap.gif.7f4dd41e3e9b23fbd170a1ee6f65cecc.gif

Welcome to the real world buddy. It's what humans do best. Now embrace it and join the marines or something....

 

[AcidicDreams 10+ year member]

Israel is breaking international law and the U.S. is backing them with money to buy our weapons.It is sad to say the least that our news sources ignore the fact that Israel is occupying Palestine, and seem to poise them as merely defending themselves when you hear about Palestine deaths. They destroy hundreds upon hundreds of Palestinian homes, and kill a whole lot of civilians.

What they are doing is deplorable to say the least and we all should be ashamed that the United States supports them.

Oh wait, what they're doing kind of reminds me of a little something our oh so wonderful country is doing that is heinous. /sigh

You my friend are a liberal hippie pinko commie bastard.... If you think it's that one sided you're a moron...