American made amplifiers

[Papermaker85 5,000+ posts]

I was lunar would open up shop again he had phenomenal amps and is was local here in louisiana

I met Kenny several times. His knowledge on amplifiers was bare none. Best amps I ever heard. Ultra realistic

 

[winkychevelle 10+ year member]

I met Kenny several times. His knowledge on amplifiers was bare none. Best amps I ever heard. Ultra realistic

He has a couple of protos in his shop that is love to have

 

[Papermaker85 5,000+ posts]

Back when I was like 16 or 17 I worked with a bricklayer that was known around town for having some of the best work when it came to masonry and stuff like that he was nothing short of Genius. also being audio and a FANTIC as well.

one day we built kenny some brick steps and he actually gave me 2 40.2s. He rated them at 80 Watts bridged I guarantee you you got 160 from before you could hear any distortion. At that time I had a pair of CDT classic CL pro cl62s and I swear to this day they still sounded as good as the high-end sets I purchased that's why I'm a strong believer in amp circuitry doesn't make a huge difference..

 

[marc2112 10+ year member]

Hmmm hello.. the king of all amp makers is in the US. All hail Milbert.//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/bowdown.gif.b85b23b82970bd22fb6b549c3392f016.gif

 

[Papermaker85 5,000+ posts]

He has a couple of protos in his shop that is love to have

I heard a few stories as to why he shut down but I don't know for myself pretty much just hearsay I haven't seen him in 15 years I'd like to I would like to contact him and see if he would actually build some amps I would definitely try to Market them

 

[winkychevelle 10+ year member]

I heard a few stories as to why he shut down but I don't know for myself pretty much just hearsay I haven't seen him in 15 years I'd like to I would like to contact him and see if he would actually build some amps I would definitely try to Market them

I haven't seen him or any of his amps in person in 9years.

 

[ciaonzo 5,000+ posts]

global feedback makes a difference. every amp ive heard with it sounded substantial better.

There's some truth in that but the difference is not always better. Some of the best sounding amps I've heard, including solid state amps that were designed to mimic tube behavior, don't even have a negative feedback loop or have one operating on low gain, or have one but you can defeat it when desired. It really depends on what you're driving for a load and what your final goals and tastes are. If you are using a very efficient, tight gap low mass voice coil type driver (low Q), odds are you will prefer the sound of no feedback because it will fatten up (read, even out) and add pleasant color in the form of even order harmonics to an otherwise clinical anemic sound. This is not something that equalization can offer, it is an entirely different thing. This is one reason why tubes have such a huge following. That, and a lower damping factor yielding warm resonant bass and rich mids & highs. It's one of the most misunderstood aspects of how to choose amplification.
A lot of the low impedance cheater amps running front stage or subs were current source amplifiers and just sounded much better, not because they were putting out peak power at the lowest impedance. It's because they were putting out lush amounts of fatter frequencies with harmonics like a tube amp, but they still had a decent grip on the driver because of the solid state power. This benefited the entire frequency range including the top end. That same amount of power delivered by a voltage source amplifier might not be subjectively as enjoyable, all other things being equal. I say might not because it's all about the total recipe, the pairing and install and everything else. But someone who understands this and has a vision can pull off something lovely in their front stage with the right amplifier and driver combination.

I always laugh when I hear someone trying to clown an old school .25 ohm stable amplifier saying that it doesn't make much power and what's the point because they can buy so much more power these days, lol. The point went right over their head because it was a glorious sounding current source amplifier intended for people who understand how to use it. Take a look at the BigDWiz Planet Audio P225HC video and you will see my point. Hooked it up to a dyno to see how high the wattage would be. Was disappointed because it didn't keep doubling power as the impedance dropped, lol. As if that is the only test to ever perform on an amplifier. What a bout a subjective listening test on two different types of drivers? Don't get me wrong, I love that dude and his videos. But there's much more merit in discussion centered around slew rate, phase lag, current source v. voltage source, and negative (global) feedback, than there is discussing the simple power figures, and this could really help people understand why amplifiers do sound different. It's a big ball of subjective impressions and I don't want to open an argument about it. Just trying to open a few minds to exploration. Seems like much of this thinking is lost on the younger, 'high compression' generations going for the highest wattage who love to use the words 'clean' and 'clipping'. It's clean alright. Downright sterile and lifeless.

Here's a link to help with some concepts, visuals, and good commentary. In fact, all of the pages in that link are pretty informative to the novice. Yes, you actually have to read all of it.

Speakers: Impedance (Z)

 

[Papermaker85 5,000+ posts]

The feedback decreases overall imd and it greatly helps driving highly reactive loads(decreased output impedance). I'll agree that it's more than just a feedback circuit but the feedback imo is overall a benefit especially when you have high back emf that is very common using today's higher bl larger coil designs.

I never hear a high current amp in high current mode sound more transient. Maybe I'm the lame the like the high dampening factor and the " tight" sound. I know this though any global feedback amp does not like to be driven past its limits. I'll even say that unless the circuit is not super low distortion the feedback can add some nasty artifacts that sound harsh even metallic. But again that's pushed pass it's limits

 

[shredder2]

This car made me throw in the towel chasing Sq trophies back in the 90's... my car did ok locally and sounded great IMO but once I demoed this car the whole Sq money pit went out the window. The work he had done was crazy and those d*mn tube amps had some wierd presence thats hard to describe... live maybe explains it best. The systems I had were all a/b hc (Soundstream 1996) and another was high priced (Macintosh 1999) ... idk how those amps (technically) and drivers worked together so well but it sure worked!

Milbert Vacuum Tube Car Amplifiers

 

[ciaonzo 5,000+ posts]

The feedback decreases overall imd and it greatly helps driving highly reactive loads(decreased output impedance). I'll agree that it's more than just a feedback circuit but the feedback imo is overall a benefit especially when you have high back emf that is very common using today's higher bl larger coil designs.I never hear a high current amp in high current mode sound more transient. Maybe I'm the lame the like the high dampening factor and the " tight" sound. I know this though any global feedback amp does not like to be driven past its limits. I'll even say that unless the circuit is not super low distortion the feedback can add some nasty artifacts that sound harsh even metallic. But again that's pushed pass it's limits

Yep, I hear you. I'm not saying the feedback loop has no place or use, that would be silly to suggest. Negative feedback loops are important. Just not for every scenario, and it's equally important to know how and when a non-negative feedback design should be implemented. They won't work for everything.
I was looking for one article in particular to help more with why fuzzy sound and harmonics are actually very appealing to us but I can't find it at the moment. I did come across this little blurb along the same lines.

https://www.stereophile.com/news/10065/

This car made me throw in the towel chasing Sq trophies back in the 90's... my car did ok locally and sounded great IMO but once I demoed this car the whole Sq money pit went out the window. The work he had done was crazy and those d*mn tube amps had some wierd presence thats hard to describe... live maybe explains it best. The systems I had were all a/b hc (Soundstream 1996) and another was high priced (Macintosh 1999) ... idk how those amps (technically) and drivers worked together so well but it sure worked!
Milbert Vacuum Tube Car Amplifiers

Yeah, the Zausmer BMW with 15's in the kicks. Pretty inspiring build. I believe those Milberts were full fledged tube amps rather than hybrids with tube front ends, so yeah, that would be the real deal. Milbert tube sound on a B&W front stage, Zapco high current bipolar transistor sound/power on the 15's. The results speak for themselves.

 

[Papermaker85 5,000+ posts]

Yep, I hear you. I'm not saying the feedback loop has no place or use, that would be silly to suggest. Negative feedback loops are important. Just not for every scenario, and it's equally important to know how and when a non-negative feedback design should be implemented. They won't work for everything.
I was looking for one article in particular to help more with why fuzzy sound and harmonics are actually very appealing to us but I can't find it at the moment. I did come across this little blurb along the same lines.

https://www.stereophile.com/news/10065/

Yeah, the Zausmer BMW with 15's in the kicks. Pretty inspiring build. I believe those Milberts were full fledged tube amps rather than hybrids with tube front ends, so yeah, that would be the real deal. Milbert tube sound on a B&W front stage, Zapco high current bipolar transistor sound/power on the 15's. The results speak for themselves.

I like bpj transistors over mosfets lol

 

[Papermaker85 5,000+ posts]

I'm talking imd...

 

[ciaonzo 5,000+ posts]

I like bpj transistors over mosfets lol

You mean BJT's? //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/tongue.gif.6130eb82179565f6db8d26d6001dcd24.gif
I beleive that's because the banks of Bipolar Junction Transistors handle the entire portion of the waveform, positive and negative, so there is no crossover distortion related to the swicthing on an off that stems from seperate banks of transiitors handling either the postive or negative half of the waveform. IIRC, someone may want to fact check that. Anyway, if you couple that with high bias, you can have pretty close to class A sound/performance without as much heat as pure class A.

 

[Papermaker85 5,000+ posts]

Yes. I was falling asleep then my pizza came. Lol

 

[LosIsATool 5,000+ posts]

This car made me throw in the towel chasing Sq trophies back in the 90's... my car did ok locally and sounded great IMO but once I demoed this car the whole Sq money pit went out the window. The work he had done was crazy and those d*mn tube amps had some wierd presence thats hard to describe... live maybe explains it best. The systems I had were all a/b hc (Soundstream 1996) and another was high priced (Macintosh 1999) ... idk how those amps (technically) and drivers worked together so well but it sure worked!
Milbert Vacuum Tube Car Amplifiers

Funny thing is it would get eaten alive today by a basic 2 way plus sub.