Alpine Type-X 12” SWX-1243D recoil advice

[Eviljacket]

Hey all, long time member (Tekjive) but can’t remember my password so had to create this acct just to post lol

I’m looking for help/advise on choosing a coil to replace my SWX-1243D coils. I need to do 3 (2x12” & 1x10”) so this first needs to be a success, my goal is to keep or exceed the SQ & power handling. This will be my 1st recoil but I’ve been reading and discussing with friends for weeks and confident I can easily do this, I’ve already disassembled my woofers fully and carefully, saving all stock parts so I can keep what makes the Type-X a Type-X, posted pics on below Reddit link:



There’s a second post with more pics if any interested. But ya, learning the hard way there is basically ZERO info online about these subs and recoiling them, because of the difficulty in disassembly I imagine and the fact no one makes an inset voice coil (inner and outer wound voice coil, which is superior in sound quality) so I’m “reduced” to using a traditional wound coil, and I’m having a hard time choosing which/what/etc.

I know the stock coil is dual 4(3.6)ohm 3layer round CCA inner/outer for a total of 6 layers. I wanted to go 8 layer full copper flat wire but can not find one. I just bought a 4layer dual 4ohm flat copper wire coil below, which is 57mm vs 50mm but I’m replacing the spiders as well and was just going to compensate when installing figuring the extra xmax might be nice (lol) the dual 4 flat copper is whatme me jump on it

http://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/711-5...0001&campid=5335951755&icep_item=143093457584

But after receiving it it doesn’t look near beefy enough, Jorge at LoB said it’s 1kw RMS, which is the minimum I want but man it’s looking paltry :/ really wish he had this in 8layer, there’s a dual 2ohm and dual .5ohm I’m looking to maybe exchange mine for and they have the same wind width as stock, but both are 8layer flat alum 1.5kw RMS, which I prefer for RMS, but I have questions I can’t seem to find answers for. I’ve read Copper and mass is better for SQ, and SQ is what I want, and I’m an all or nothing Alpine “fanboi” so I really want to resurrect these but with more “oompf” lol, is 4layer flat copper or 8layer flat alum better for SQ? Is 8layer round copper better for SQ vs 8layer flat alum? Which would be the best for SQ ultimately, 8layer flat copper? If I can even find it :/ wish I could find inner&outter wound flat copper ...almost ready to learn winding so I can make my own lol

I'm hoping anyone with extensive knowledge in coils or the SWX-1243d (2nd all black matte cone version) like say SPLAudio or the like can chime in. I know what I would like but vs what’s actually available right now on the net has me undecided :/ I want to put in a better voice coil for better SQ and more power handling if possible, thanks for reading this long ass essay, hoping to maybe put more info out on the net regarding the Type-X as well, stock and upgrading.

Just for info purposes the specs on stock coil are as follows (12” & 10” are same exact

Alpine SWX-1243D

Stock Voice Coil
Former height: 115-ish mm
Wind Width: 50 mm
Outer: 84 mm
Inner: 76 mm
Impedance: dual 4 (3.6) ohm
Layers: 6
Former Material: alum
Wire Type: round copper clad alum
Wire Gauge: ???

Stock Motor
130oz 5/8”x3 Triple stack
Gap Width: 6mm
Gap Depth: 73mm
Outer: 87 mm
Inner: 75 mm
Top Plate: 12mm

All measurements made by me and triple checked. Couldn’t find any spec info like this at all :/

Click to read more...

 

[hispls 5,000+ posts]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the type X have coil windings inside and outside of the former? You are likely never going to find one of those just loose. It should be easy enough to get a serviceable cone and spiders but it'll never be the same performance without the OEM parts (most importantly the coil). Now you can get you some calipers and measure the ID, OD, and WW of the coil and probably find something that'll make a functioning sub but it will not perform as it did from the factory.

 

[Eviljacket]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the type X have coil windings inside and outside of the former? You are likely never going to find one of those just loose. It should be easy enough to get a serviceable cone and spiders but it'll never be the same performance without the OEM parts (most importantly the coil). Now you can get you some calipers and measure the ID, OD, and WW of the coil and probably find something that'll make a functioning sub but it will not perform as it did from the factory.

Ya no I went over all that above bro, was hoping to get some input & advise on the other questions regarding layer count, wire type, etc. It seems the technical stuff is hard to find online, couldn’t even barely find anything online about what actually dictates voice coil impedance, lol. But ya if you got any input on the other questions it’d be much appreciated, basically trying to get close to the stock inner/outer specs or as close as I can get with my options for SQ that still pounds and some info I’d like to know just cuz for future builds.

 

[YourNameHere 10+ year member]

Not trying to be a jerk, but you wasted money on recone parts....good luck with your adventure lol

 

[Eviljacket]

Not trying to be a jerk, but you wasted money on recone parts....good luck with your adventure lol

So no info as to why? Just that statement? Obviously an opinion but why so? Trying to learn the ins and outs of this sub and subwoofer rebuilding in general, etc. I’ve talked some and theyve had great success, even said parameters were better after the recoil and that’s with the recoil being put in a subwoofer tester. So ya it can be done, and personally I love the design and think it’s worth the time/money/effort, just want to learn how to maximize my effort to get the best results. Hoping more will chime in with more a more technical answer. Still trying to find what makes what coil the coil for SQ vs SPLc etc.

 

[hispls 5,000+ posts]

Still trying to find what makes what coil the coil for SQ vs SPLc etc.

This is a matter for predicting with computer modeling then trial and error in prototyping. If there were a simple recipe for making it do what you want, or even a consensus as to what exactly is most desirable then everyone would be selling the exact same sub.

Again, get some calipers and find the coil that's the closest to the physical dimensions to yours, figure out if it is copper or aluminum and try to stick to whatever OEM used. Cone and suspension aren't super important in your end results, coil should be the dominant variable.

Alpine did not make these to be repaired and they aren't selling loose parts. They seem the sort of company that IF you were to figure out exact specs of their parts and tried to sell the as repair kits they'd probably sue you. You should really start with a motor of one of the more cookie-cutter China subs if you wanted an easier time to just try to source parts and throw things at it to see what happens.

 

[Eviljacket]

This is a matter for predicting with computer modeling then trial and error in prototyping. If there were a simple recipe for making it do what you want, or even a consensus as to what exactly is most desirable then everyone would be selling the exact same sub.

Again, get some calipers and find the coil that's the closest to the physical dimensions to yours, figure out if it is copper or aluminum and try to stick to whatever OEM used. Cone and suspension aren't super important in your end results, coil should be the dominant variable.

Alpine did not make these to be repaired and they aren't selling loose parts. They seem the sort of company that IF you were to figure out exact specs of their parts and tried to sell the as repair kits they'd probably sue you. You should really start with a motor of one of the more cookie-cutter China subs if you wanted an easier time to just try to source parts and throw things at it to see what happens.

Ya no I’m pretty sure I listed all my measurements, unless that was a diff thread, and I get Alpine’s reasoning and after disassembly of their Type-X I can see why most don’t attempt it, even tho it wasn’t too bad just took some patience is all. And I see ppl selling specific Type-R recoil Kits all the time, I think it’s more material as to why there’s no recoil kits. Technically the coil is a 1kw rms dual3.5ohm 6layer round copper clad alum inset (inner and outer) wound coil, which NO one produces, might have gone over that too, too early to remember and/or go reread it lol.

Main reason for thread was to maybe get info on this exact subwoofer and what the diff reasons are for what materials are used in voice coils to help with deciding on what coil to use, of course a CCA inset would be best, but NO one makes them, hence all the “technical” questions, which I can’t seem to find info on or get answered lol. So I just made the decision to go with a 1.5kw dual2ohm 8layer flat alum traditional wound voice coil with the other correct specific specs of course (wind width,etc)

I realize it’s a trial and error, hence the thread, I know how to go about it, but trying to learn why I would want to go in either direction for each option, flat vs round wire, copper vs alum, 4 layer vs 8 layer, etc and if possible maybe upgrade where I can, which with what I have found for info decided to go over spec vs under spec, ie: 8 layer vs 4 layer (which I still haven’t found the reason why this or that layer/material/etc do this or that/etc and which is better, so I just defaulted to the “more is usually better” tactic lol)

Def not easy finding the technical info/reasoning on some stuff but if anyone actually knows please chime in, many more besides me would really dig the info as well. I’ll be making a write up with picks on this rebuild (since there is virtually none on the net) and ill be getting a Dayton Audio DATS V3 so I can get the new T/S parameters as well, going super nerd on this recoil lol!

 

[Bobbyhill]

Hey I'm doing trying the exact same thing with a type X 1043D, I bought it for 40 bucks knowing the voice coil was trashed and I want to recone it to factory specs so I can run it with my other 1043d, I also have a 1243d like you have and I would like to replace the surround on it. How is your rebuild going so far? I dont know where to start with the voice coil and i forgot to take measurements of it before i tore it off of the plastic basket thing

 

[Eviljacket]

Mine went great but you won’t find stock coils tho, therefore won’t be able to properly run it with a stock woofer. My 12”s went great, better spiders/leads and the lows are deeper/hit harder, but the high end lost some punch, using an 8layer coil. And you won’t find a stock Type-X surround and it is different then the Type-R, model specific. I’ll put together pics and my process with measurements and post it up soon. The 12” and 10” use same exact coil btw.

 

[Eviljacket]

Just an update with pics. Subs are doing great, lows are lower which really surprised me but this was my first rebuild so it all was new to me lol. 3”8layer dual2ohm 1.5kRMS now, feels more proper for a Type-X. But hooked hard and really digging rebuilding, currently running a 15” ZVXv2 I rebuilt with the best 3” 8layer VC LOB had, dual1.4ohm2.5kRMS and really digging it, got my eyeballs looking at Orion now ...just pretty and the amps are so underrated ...beautious lol. Last pic is a 21” 4”motor I picked up for literally $5, 100% working. Frame alone was more then worth it to me. But ya man, fun af hobby and making money too, can’t beat it