Ae Av?

[bumpin buick 5,000+ posts]

i was not even talking about that particular subwoofer. i have heard several people ( on forum's ) talk about the warranty turn around times being measured in months.

I was unaware, my apologies. The only complaint I had heard was from these two people and I was simply trying to address what I had seen. I do not run any Acoustic Elegance product nor am I associate with John in anyway. Simply I was going off the fact that he showed up at my house with some production models and said lets see if we can blow them. I give the man respect for that. If he has poor turn arounds to other customers I have nothing to defend him on. I was just stating the one situation I had seen thats all.

 

[ParaTrooper1987 10+ year member]

so it seems the people who are praising the driver have only used it for short periods of time, i want to hear from people who use it daily and have had it going on a bit of power over a few months

 

[bose301s 5,000+ posts]

so it seems the people who are praising the driver have only used it for short periods of time, i want to hear from people who use it daily and have had it going on a bit of power over a few months

Different application but if you want to find people that have used the drivers check out pretty much any home theater forum, lots of people using them there. They are geared mainly towards that application so that's where John has mostly targeted and that's where the largest userbase is.

 

[ParaTrooper1987 10+ year member]

yes but there's a huge difference between HT and in a car, HT doesnt have bumps and what not like a car does..

 

[Immacomputer 10+ year member]

I ran my old AV12 for years daily with no problems. That one was rated at 500rms and I had it on a 1200rms amp for a while with no issues. I liked that sub better than my Avalanche 15 but that's not really fair seeing that I only had the Avalanche for less than 2 months before it was stolen.

 

[Papermaker85 5,000+ posts]

Funny you mention papermaker, the guy who ran more than rated power to the sub at high volumes in a box with too large of a port under tuning using no SSF. Gee, I wonder why he "killed" the sub. BTW, I saw the sub papermaker broke, it took 4.5kW for 30 seconds plus before that it played everything from 15hZ to 1.5kHz with no problems what so ever. Seriously, had it not been for the bent cone I would have taken that sub no problem, it performed flawlessly. I'm sorry if you don;t know how to handle a sub, bit for those that do this is a great driver.

simply put your a ****ing idoit.. i had 1500 on tap.. 3 cubes tuned to 31 with about 58in^2 of port area.. i told him the spiders had problems at high excursions.. i had a SSF set @ 25hz.. it DIDn'T bottom down low.. it was right around 50-55hz where it was uncontrolled and took very little power to bottom..

that sub will NEVER take 4500 watts.. your ****ing stupid if you think it can did or will..

 

[Papermaker85 5,000+ posts]

futhermore i have a couple protoyes im working on in the same exact install, they play well past 70hz sound excellent and handle double what there rated for on occasion...

thing is its in the exact same install that the AV was really peaky and sounded bad above 50-55hz...nothing aginst john.. it just didn't work out.. id say keep it out of hte cars and in HT...

 

[bose301s 5,000+ posts]

simply put your a ****ing idoit.. i had 1500 on tap.. 3 cubes tuned to 31 with about 58in^2 of port area.. i told him the spiders had problems at high excursions.. i had a SSF set @ 25hz.. it DIDn'T bottom down low.. it was right around 50-55hz where it was uncontrolled and took very little power to bottom..that sub will NEVER take 4500 watts.. your ****ing stupid if you think it can did or will..

Well, considering I saw it with my own 2 eyes, I guess you would be the dumb one here. What you describe is literally impossible for subs, it defies the laws of physics and of driver design. Unless your garage is special I am dismissing you as a know nothing moron and moving on.

 

[bumpin buick 5,000+ posts]

simply put your a ****ing idoit.. i had 1500 on tap.. 3 cubes tuned to 31 with about 58in^2 of port area.. i told him the spiders had problems at high excursions.. i had a SSF set @ 25hz.. it DIDn'T bottom down low.. it was right around 50-55hz where it was uncontrolled and took very little power to bottom..that sub will NEVER take 4500 watts.. your ****ing stupid if you think it can did or will..

Im not here to argue with you but this is YOUR subwoofer and a dozen members from CA.com present taking 4500wrms at 60hz.

http://s213.photobucket.com/albums/cc256/usask8er1/Build%20Day/?action=view&current=MVI_4252.flv

 

[Papermaker85 5,000+ posts]

Well, considering I saw it with my own 2 eyes, I guess you would be the dumb one here. What you describe is literally impossible for subs, it defies the laws of physics and of driver design. Unless your garage is special I am dismissing you as a know nothing moron and moving on.

dude, seriously you don't even know how ported enclosures work.. excursion increses as you get futher away from tuning.. plain and simple.. i and john thought it was possible that it was the amp/box, but its just not the case... i futher exampined the spider and noticed that the gue joint changed its geometry at high excursion... he desined it to do excellent with mass loaded PR with very low tunes in very small boxes.. this just isn't idea for car audio.. i had the copper coil version with the very low FS/QE which shouldn't be used ported.. the alum coil is a much better canidate for a ported enclosure.. i don't care what you do say or show me a true 4500 RMS will smoke that woofer/ bottom it to hell.

 

[Papermaker85 5,000+ posts]

I ran my old AV12 for years daily with no problems. That one was rated at 500rms and I had it on a 1200rms amp for a while with no issues. I liked that sub better than my Avalanche 15 but that's not really fair seeing that I only had the Avalanche for less than 2 months before it was stolen.

well unless you oscoped it to get 1200 RMS i HIGHly doubt it got any where close to 1200 with impedance rise etc.. im not arguing that the woofer couldn't take the rated power, or that it didn't sound great.. what im saying is the 15h has too low a QE and FS to be ported with good results unless you do 2-2.25 tuned to 24hz.. while the orginal X with the alum coil done better in my install it simply failed to hold together above 60hz as ken stated.. john has excellent CS and is a great guy.. i just don't care for the design for car audio... i can give you formulas showing actual motor strength vs suspension stiffness and how it affcets frequency response in a given car/enclosure..

 

[Papermaker85 5,000+ posts]

or even better model them woofer up port in winisd and see just how peaky they are... if you know anything about acoustics you know that efficieny is lended to a narrow bandwidth.. the woofer is highly efficient in any car audio aligment, and has a narrow bandwidth.. while in a HT setup in a small box with massive PRs it sound excellent.. even past 70hz..

side note.. many many many woofers on the market can play well past 100hz.. that shouldn't be a design goal, and it most certianlly doesn't make the driver better because one can play to 300 and this one plays to 1000 when hte pass band is 3 octaves lower...

as for bose's comment that the AE made a whine audible in his amp is totaly bullshit...

 

[Papermaker85 5,000+ posts]

Im not here to argue with you but this is YOUR subwoofer and a dozen members from CA.com present taking 4500wrms at 60hz. http://s213.photobucket.com/albums/cc256/usask8er1/Build%20Day/?action=view&current=MVI_4252.flv

i can't see the video, but i can tell you a 2.5" 55mm coil can't hadle a 30 second 4.5k burp.. its going to have masive excursion or extreme heat...while id be willing to believe a true 3K RMS burp for a couple seconds, its highly unlikely that a woofer with very little cooling properties other than a aluminiuim cone and very very small amount of copper on its pole peace won't handle over 4x its rated power for 30 seconds.. on most 3" coils 30 seconds of a true 4.5k is a feat... im not going to arguewith your guys because there are elements you don't understand in driver design.. ill just have to step back explain and the futher the argument just to repeat myself... BTW what box/tune did the AV get burped in?

 

[bose301s 5,000+ posts]

or even better model them woofer up port in winisd and see just how peaky they are... if you know anything about acoustics you know that efficieny is lended to a narrow bandwidth.. the woofer is highly efficient in any car audio aligment, and has a narrow bandwidth.. while in a HT setup in a small box with massive PRs it sound excellent.. even past 70hz..side note.. many many many woofers on the market can play well past 100hz.. that shouldn't be a design goal, and it most certianlly doesn't make the driver better because one can play to 300 and this one plays to 1000 when hte pass band is 3 octaves lower...

as for bose's comment that the AE made a whine audible in his amp is totaly bullshit...

Want me to record the hiss for you, I will gladly do so if you think it is not there. Again, you just keep showing how little you truly do know yet assume you know everything, it's actually getting to the point that it is comical how little you know.

 

[bose301s 5,000+ posts]

or even better model them woofer up port in winisd and see just how peaky they are... if you know anything about acoustics you know that efficieny is lended to a narrow bandwidth.. the woofer is highly efficient in any car audio aligment, and has a narrow bandwidth.. while in a HT setup in a small box with massive PRs it sound excellent.. even past 70hz..side note.. many many many woofers on the market can play well past 100hz.. that shouldn't be a design goal, and it most certianlly doesn't make the driver better because one can play to 300 and this one plays to 1000 when hte pass band is 3 octaves lower...

as for bose's comment that the AE made a whine audible in his amp is totaly bullshit...

Again, incorrect. A high top end capability is a byproduct of an extremely low Le. While I know this is over Le is also a major factor into distortion as well as transient response, aka. woofer speed. Just because a woofer does not need to extend up to 1.5kHz does not mean that it is a bad thing for it to do. This is an excellent paper for you to review and help to educate yourself as you are obviously in need of some education on the topic http://stereointegrity.com/docs/WooferSpeed.pdf

Again, yes, this driver did take 4.5KW for 30+ seconds no problem, saw it with my own 2 eyes. Just because you do not understand the physics or material properties behind something does not mean it can't happen. Basically I am saying, please educate yourself before you talk again.