Ae Av?

[bose301s 5,000+ posts]

you know anything about electricty? counter wound coils in hte same circuit=a nono...you work on generators? you know how these things affect generators?

That's funny, counter coils have been used in driver design and other things for many years to reduce and eliminate Le. Look at the JBL GTi series, split coil drivers where each coil is wound in the opposite direction, sorry buddy, you're wrong yet again.

 

[Papermaker85 5,000+ posts]

we measured it but this was months ago I dont recall it is posted in my thread about AE though and we calculated it out to 4000-4500wrms. If its that big of a deal I will look it up for you but either way it never mechanically failed it was clearly a thermal failure and we all watched it smoke. made for a good show.

so it did fail? thats what i though.. i could see it taking 3kw for a couple seconds, but 4kw+ for 30 seconds and survive without a hint is very hard to believe...

how the install coming along?

 

[Papermaker85 5,000+ posts]

That's funny, counter coils have been used in driver design and other things for many years to reduce and eliminate Le. Look at the JBL GTi series, split coil drivers where each coil is wound in the opposite direction, sorry buddy, you're wrong yet again.

they have been and do work, but its very very affective if its in completely different fields... infact the count wound coils have proven to lower the inductance/reactance by no more than 15%.. simply because the magnetic stauration in the coils still introduce EMF no matter what you do...the angular phase is different but its still reintroduced into the amp.. like i said again a good amp will have a high enought dampning factor to control it..

 

[bose301s 5,000+ posts]

they have been and do work, but its very very affective if its in completely different fields... infact the count wound coils have proven to lower the inductance/reactance by no more than 15%.. simply because the magnetic stauration in the coils still introduce EMF no matter what you do...the angular phase is different but its still reintroduced into the amp.. like i said again a good amp will have a high enought dampning factor to control it..

Depends on the amplifier. The most common amps, the Sundown, DD, RD, etc will have dampening factors between 100 and 200 at the most common loads, ie. 1 ohm. These dampening factors are extremely low and will NOT take care of these problems.

 

[Papermaker85 5,000+ posts]

Depends on the amplifier. The most common amps, the Sundown, DD, RD, etc will have dampening factors between 100 and 200 at the most common loads, ie. 1 ohm. These dampening factors are extremely low and will NOT take care of these problems.

again frequency depandant dependant.. if i remember correctly richard clark said a dampning factor of 20 is high enought for nearly any attainable load.. you might be hearing leakage in a circuit thats only apparent at that load.. chances are you should redo you connection and check to make sure there good... i can honestly tell you that the noise your hearing is mosty likely noise from a bad ground somewhere or leakage in a circuit.. btw SD DD and RD make very good amps.. no there not top tolerance parts, but all of them use high quatitly parts... back EMF and reactance in a circuit that impeads frequency response are 2 different things, but both are frequency dependant and normally with a good design shouldn't be of concern.. like i mentioned under 6mh under 100hz you won't beable to tell the difference..

 

[Papermaker85 5,000+ posts]

Depends on the amplifier. The most common amps, the Sundown, DD, RD, etc will have dampening factors between 100 and 200 at the most common loads, ie. 1 ohm. These dampening factors are extremely low and will NOT take care of these problems.

how is that clarion amp working out? they seem to be on hte upside in amplification, but i haven't liked there decks since the last 9 what ever highend...i see you got the new kenwood 693? wonder how it compares to the x991.. imo the 991 is a very very nice deck... they only deck i wish i would have gotten is the eclipse 7200, reason i didn't is i heard/knew a few people that have had problems with the preamp output section...

 

[SHOemup233 10+ year member]

God I thought papermaker was banned or something. Glad to see nothing has changed on the forums, bose and papermaker //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/tongue.gif.6130eb82179565f6db8d26d6001dcd24.gif

Anyway, kendogg and papermaker have been the only ones on the forums that have big problems with AV. Everyone else is all for them because they haven't experienced problems or because they saw that John himself came on the forums to disprove everything papermaker and kendogg said. When they were disproven, they did much the same thing that papermaker is now, which is just keep posting useless jargin and ignoring the previous points addressed that they were wrong about.

 

[T3mpest 10+ year member]

dude, seriously you don't even know how ported enclosures work.. excursion increses as you get futher away from tuning.. plain and simple.. i and john thought it was possible that it was the amp/box, but its just not the case... i futher exampined the spider and noticed that the gue joint changed its geometry at high excursion... he desined it to do excellent with mass loaded PR with very low tunes in very small boxes.. this just isn't idea for car audio.. i had the copper coil version with the very low FS/QE which shouldn't be used ported.. the alum coil is a much better canidate for a ported enclosure.. i don't care what you do say or show me a true 4500 RMS will smoke that woofer/ bottom it to hell.

Excursion on a ported woofer doesn't increase as you go above tuning. As you approach tuning the excursion decreases and once your far enough away from tuning the port essentially no longer exists and you get the same excursion as you would from a sealed box of the same size, on the top end anyway. Everyone knows what happens below tuning lol. Anway your correct inducance is frequency dependent and the best subwoofer companies using faraday shielding have taken steps to not only lower overall inducatance, but to keep it stable at any frequency with any amount of stroke. I believe the AE woofers do this as well as JBL's and Exodus.

 

[Papermaker85 5,000+ posts]

God I thought papermaker was banned or something. Glad to see nothing has changed on the forums, bose and papermaker //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/tongue.gif.6130eb82179565f6db8d26d6001dcd24.gif
Anyway, kendogg and papermaker have been the only ones on the forums that have big problems with AV. Everyone else is all for them because they haven't experienced problems or because they saw that John himself came on the forums to disprove everything papermaker and kendogg said. When they were disproven, they did much the same thing that papermaker is now, which is just keep posting useless jargin and ignoring the previous points addressed that they were wrong about.

honestly, there where more people not just us 2... we just decided to say something..

i defined john for 2 monts waiting for my woofer, only to experence the same problems i argued aginst and was farwarned about.. i had no choice but to say i was wrong...

im positive there great woofer in a mass loaded pr ht setup, i just don't care for a 10 db peak @ tuning with 12db down @ 65hz.

 

[Papermaker85 5,000+ posts]

Excursion on a ported woofer doesn't increase as you go above tuning. As you approach tuning the excursion decreases and once your far enough away from tuning the port essentially no longer exists and you get the same excursion as you would from a sealed box of the same size, on the top end anyway. Everyone knows what happens below tuning lol. Anway your correct inducance is frequency dependent and the best subwoofer companies using faraday shielding have taken steps to not only lower overall inducatance.

ive accounted for the possible human error.. problem is i have used several other woofers in the same install with great results..the current proto i have blends excellent with my ES6s, no phase problems.. i checked the amps outputs, nothing unusual..

so you tell me what went wrong..

btw ported boxes aren't nearly as simple as you made the out to freeair..

 

[Papermaker85 5,000+ posts]

the lowered inductance means lower reactance, both capative and inductive(air core and iron core inductors have similar properties) The inrn core inductor of capative inductance is like a capactor, it limits low frequecy extention, while hte air core of inductave reactance is oppsite.. it limits the high frequency extention.. pretty much excatly like a crossover does.. lower these ill affects are a good way to providing a diamond sound.. but there is a point in which its inaudible.. like i said under a certian amount of inductance under 100 hz its just not going to make a difference.. also one of hte most audible forms of distortion come from your CMS curves and b/l parameters shfts due to power compresion and non linear excursion... power compression is by far the largest factor in keeping b/l linear inductance lower and efficiency high.. IMO its the most important factor in having a excellent sounding highoutput woofer.. this is why many many many designs use softer spiders for a given throw.. anyways...

 

[Immacomputer 10+ year member]

well unless you oscoped it to get 1200 RMS i HIGHly doubt it got any where close to 1200 with impedance rise etc.. im not arguing that the woofer couldn't take the rated power, or that it didn't sound great.. what im saying is the 15h has too low a QE and FS to be ported with good results unless you do 2-2.25 tuned to 24hz.. while the orginal X with the alum coil done better in my install it simply failed to hold together above 60hz as ken stated.. john has excellent CS and is a great guy.. i just don't care for the design for car audio... i can give you formulas showing actual motor strength vs suspension stiffness and how it affcets frequency response in a given car/enclosure..

That's why I said 1200rms amp. The enclosure was a transmission line with a 35hz 1/4 wave length and a .75 ft^3 compression chamber. I could only drive full excursion with a 30hz test tone and at 20hz and 65hz, I would run out of amp pretty easily. It was beautifully flat in the integra up to 70hz and pretty **** flat in a 95 maxima up to 100hz.