My first "Active" "SQ'ish" build attempt.

[fithwheel]

As far as blowing tweeters, thats because, believe it or not... setting them via o-scope is not a good way to go about it. tweeters will see maybe 5 watts if crossed over and level matched appropriately. Another audiofrog article..

Pink Noise, White Noise and Why Your Tweeters Never Get 150 ...

What’s the difference? I’ve always read and been told that “White noise is equal energy at every frequency and pink noise is equal energy in every oct...

www.audiofrog.com

I seen that. I don’t doubt it one bit but would like to see someone clamp their tweeter amp.

 

[SkizeR 10+ year member]

I seen that. I don’t doubt it one bit but would like to see someone clamp their tweeter amp.

you're looking at it wrong. With crossovers enabled, playing a 5k 0db test tone and playing music are not the same thing, as per the data in the article

 

[ThxOne Premium Member]

First let me say I drove all evening with the new settings. SkizeR, it sounds great... It still needs to be eq'd but the sub is fine and all the other speakers sound fine. The only thing I noticed is the doors are resonating way more. I can see this being the argument for the sound deadening for sure. You have my attention for sure and so far your direction and knowledge have proved to be very useful.

Now, on to the tweeter power thing and setting the gains by ear... right now all I can do is EQ them. Until I get either a 6 channel amp or add another amp to the system to have 6 channels that is where I am stuck.

Still... setting the gains by ear, ok, this is doable if I know the steps on how to do it.

 

[SkizeR 10+ year member]

set your sub and midbass gain, and just raise the gain on the midrange/tweeter channels until they are about matching on the rta. And yeah, this whole making a car sound halfway decent is actually really easy if you understand the basics of how this all works. You're getting there

 

[blazian87 10+ year member]

I can’t comment on the popping noise but I seriously would not use test tones for an active setup. For passives or for the sub I can understand, but not for active speakers. They are way more sensitive to the power you give em. You need to be far far away from clipping. I suspect your gains are way too high. Start over again at 0 gain and do it by ear. It will take hundreds of tries but you need to be patient. Find where your headunit clips first and take advantage of all your pre-voltage. Start very conservative on your crossovers and slowly meet half way until you are happy. It’s a learning process.

To me, it doesn’t make sense to put in aftermarket speakers and NOT put in deadener. It makes it sound worse than stock speakers. So much interference, you can’t even hear the actual speaker, you’re just listening to your door banging. The silverflutes are known to have good midbass so you are losing a lot of clarity just by putting it in a tincan beatbox machine.

@ThxOne; honestly I wasn't surprised when you blew your tweeters few months ago. I tried to warn you here back in October but you kinda just shrugged it off. I told you these things for a reason so you didn't have to learn the hard way after the fact but I bet it was a learning experience for you to remember that's for sure. I think you will realize how important sound deadening is when you actually do it and see for yourself before and after.

You were running 2 way active before and now you're running 2 way passive with active midbass so the scenario has changed a bit but still... The former is still superior IMO.
3 way active > 2 way active > Your system > 3 way passive > 2 way passive. That's how I would rate it. 3 way active will be the loudest and clearest out of all of them. You still have way more potential in your build man. I feel like this is only the beginning...

 

[ThxOne Premium Member]

@ThxOne; honestly I wasn't surprised when you blew your tweeters few months ago. I tried to warn you here back in October but you kinda just shrugged it off. I told you these things for a reason so you didn't have to learn the hard way after the fact but I bet it was a learning experience for you to remember that's for sure. I think you will realize how important sound deadening is when you actually do it and see for yourself before and after.

You were running 2 way active before and now you're running 2 way passive with active midbass so the scenario has changed a bit but still... The former is still superior IMO.
3 way active > 2 way active > Your system > 3 way passive > 2 way passive. That's how I would rate it. 3 way active will be the loudest and clearest out of all of them. You still have way more potential in your build man. I feel like this is only the beginning...

It's two fold... I am impatient, stubborn and at the time money was hit and miss. Still is but I have this new ear now and having my ability to hear again, now that it is all healed up has got me more excited about the stereo in the car. I still have to buy things in pieces... Mic - Deadening - .. well that's what's left to get. Damn, I thought I needed more. I should have listened to you back then as well, I apologize... you were dead on.

 

[SkizeR 10+ year member]

For deadening, get yourself a ResoNix Door Kit. Trust me just one more time, and do not skimp on deadening.

ResoNix Door Kit – CLD, CCF, & Butyl Rope – ResoNix Sound Solutions

resonixsoundsolutions.com

 

[ThxOne Premium Member]

For deadening, get yourself a ResoNix Door Kit. Trust me just one more time, and do not skimp on deadening.

ResoNix Door Kit – CLD, CCF, & Butyl Rope – ResoNix Sound Solutions

resonixsoundsolutions.com

That link says it will do two doors. I hope they are right as my Pontiac doors are long.

 

[SkizeR 10+ year member]

That link says it will do two doors. I hope they are right as my Pontiac doors are long.

It will. The sizes of the closed cell foam were designed with the largest car doors in mind. Ordering 1 yard gets you 2 doors coverage. The CLD is 20 square feet. PLENTY for a solid job, let alone with the best CLD on the market

 

[ItsHammer]

@ThxOne; honestly I wasn't surprised when you blew your tweeters few months ago. I tried to warn you here back in October but you kinda just shrugged it off. I told you these things for a reason so you didn't have to learn the hard way after the fact but I bet it was a learning experience for you to remember that's for sure. I think you will realize how important sound deadening is when you actually do it and see for yourself before and after.

You were running 2 way active before and now you're running 2 way passive with active midbass so the scenario has changed a bit but still... The former is still superior IMO.
3 way active > 2 way active > Your system > 3 way passive > 2 way passive. That's how I would rate it. 3 way active will be the loudest and clearest out of all of them. You still have way more potential in your build man. I feel like this is only the beginning...

Why is 2way active better than 3way passive? Serious question. I'm guessing because when you isolate each speaker to its respective frequencies it gives you better control, cleaner sound (tweeter only playing highs instead of the midrange and tweeter both playing highs) and more power due to the loss of the passive xover network. I'm very strongly considering going active as soon as possible and I'd like to do it with my current setup although I think it would be better and more beneficial to wait until I upgrade my fronts and add a better Amp. Dsp also.

 

[blazian87 10+ year member]

Why is 2way active better than 3way passive? Serious question. I'm guessing because when you isolate each speaker to its respective frequencies it gives you better control, cleaner sound (tweeter only playing highs instead of the midrange and tweeter both playing highs) and more power due to the loss of the passive xover network. I'm very strongly considering going active as soon as possible and I'd like to do it with my current setup although I think it would be better and more beneficial to wait until I upgrade my fronts and add a better Amp. Dsp also.

I see you've been doing your homework. Yeah it all comes down to control and more tune-ability. Considering all things equal, active is my preference hands down all the way. 3 way passive would be more ideal if let's say a tweeter and mid were perfectly right next to each other and the install was done right, then you can essentially treat them as one channel and you would actually benefit from it. In an automotive environment, the physical space is a bit more challenging so you find creative ways to make it work like cuttings holes and making fabrications, etc. Stock locations in a car usually have speakers far apart which causes problems in itself. That's why I'm a huge advocate of going full active dsp because it basically opens all doors for you. With passive, you are just stuck with what you have and there's not much you can do about it except for a little bit of EQ. In a perfect environment, passive setups are more than adequate. It's not like in home audio where you can place the speakers where you want, you can sit in the dead center of the sound stage and each speaker has it's own enclosure, but inside a car it's a bit more chaotic so it really just makes sense to go active as well as the other reasons you mentioned above. The amount of control you get from a DSP is superior in every category... makes you not want to ever go without one honestly. Don't get me wrong tho, there's a bit of a learning curve and it's going to flip your world upside down the more you learn about it. I think you should definitely consider a dsp and give active a try if you are brave enough to make that leap. The best bang for buck dsp out right now is the dayton dsp-408 with the bluetooth module. Look into it. It's extremely affordable, complete game changer in being able to afford a nice dsp these days.

 

[ItsHammer]

I see you've been doing your homework. Yeah it all comes down to control and more tune-ability. Considering all things equal, active is my preference hands down all the way. 3 way passive would be more ideal if let's say a tweeter and mid were perfectly right next to each other and the install was done right, then you can essentially treat them as one channel and you would actually benefit from it. In an automotive environment, the physical space is a bit more challenging so you find creative ways to make it work like cuttings holes and making fabrications, etc. Stock locations in a car usually have speakers far apart which causes problems in itself. That's why I'm a huge advocate of going full active dsp because it basically opens all doors for you. With passive, you are just stuck with what you have and there's not much you can do about it except for a little bit of EQ. In a perfect environment, passive setups are more than adequate. It's not like in home audio where you can place the speakers where you want, you can sit in the dead center of the sound stage and each speaker has it's own enclosure, but inside a car it's a bit more chaotic so it really just makes sense to go active as well as the other reasons you mentioned above. The amount of control you get from a DSP is superior in every category... makes you not want to ever go without one honestly. Don't get me wrong tho, there's a bit of a learning curve and it's going to flip your world upside down the more you learn about it. I think you should definitely consider a dsp and give active a try if you are brave enough to make that leap. The best bang for buck dsp out right now is the dayton dsp-408 with the bluetooth module. Look into it. It's extremely affordable, complete game changer in being able to afford a nice dsp these days.

Cool man thanks I'll check it out. I did see it listed once for under 200.00 but I've had my eye on the audiocontrol d-800.4 for a while. Not sure what I'll do yet. I might just keep saving my money until I can get the audiocontrol. Good Amp with built in dsp. Buttttt... For under 200 I could go active way sooner. Decisions, decisions

 

[blazian87 10+ year member]

Cool man thanks I'll check it out. I did see it listed once for under 200.00 but I've had my eye on the audiocontrol d-800.4 for a while. Not sure what I'll do yet. I might just keep saving my money until I can get the audiocontrol. Good Amp with built in dsp. Buttttt... For under 200 I could go active way sooner. Decisions, decisions

The audiocontrol dsp is a nice piece of equipment with the built in amp is convenient but it's only limited to a 2 way active and doesn't have bluetooth. I rather run my own amps but I could see how this can work in a car where space is limited. The dayton dsp is $150 plus $30 for bluetooth module. You can easily have money leftover for a nice amp and the open the possibility to upgrade to 3 way active if you choose so in the future. You can even buy the bluetooth dongle later if you like but it's really worth it because of the streaming and tuning from your phone is so much more convenient than a laptop when you want to make quick little changes on the go. I luckily got mine for $150 for both on black friday. I'm actually planning to install it in one of my cars soon. I've been running 2 way active on a pioneer 80prs for years and now I'm finally expanding it to a full blown dsp because I want the extra control that my 80prs doesn't give me. I'm in the process of making a small amp rack for it right now and should be going in by next week. I will let you guys know if it's worth the money. From all the rave reviews, it's hard to go wrong.

 

[SkizeR 10+ year member]

Why is 2way active better than 3way passive? Serious question. I'm guessing because when you isolate each speaker to its respective frequencies it gives you better control,

Yes, but its a toss up. Its not as black and white as he puts it. If i had free reign on the install but had to choose 2 way active with a 6.5 and 1" tweeter vs a passive 3 way with a 6.5, 3, and tweeter. That said, i would take OP's style setup over 2 way active any day

 

[Slo_Ride 5,000+ posts]

Damn, I thought school was out. Somebody getting learnt.