Wow Orion Nice job.

[kr15 5,000+ posts]

Whats this priced with? Ap 3k, soundstream 3k etc.

Id easily take this over those

 

[LosIsATool 5,000+ posts]

Whats this priced with? Ap 3k, soundstream 3k etc.
Id easily take this over those

Yes. Right there with them. From what I've seen Orion will be raising the pricing soon. I heard a lot of dealers where getting undercut because online stores where basically giving them away.

 

[Jeffdachef 5,000+ posts]

Its simple guys. Do you clamp more power on a burp on a 40hz 0 db sine wave or on music.

music rarely even gets to 0 db i'm talking about modified bass music with loads of long basslines used in DB drag. You dont get more power from playing -3 db basslines than a 0 db signal wave. Just clamp with a -3 db sine wave vs a 0 db sine wave, guarantee you the 0 db wave will produce way more power. So when something claims that an amp get WAY more power on music than a full signal strength sine wave, thats complete and utter bullsh*t. where you get 6000+ watts is beyond me when you have a much weaker signal.

Certified and uncertified are the only numbers you can use to accurately depict an amp's performance.

Every amp I owned that passed the dynamic test but failed the certified test was always WAAAY less loud than the one that passed certified in direct swaps.

 

[ciaonzo 5,000+ posts]

We are in a different camp on this one. I've never heard a difference in amps. Warmth in a deffinition is midbass(120-220hz area). For SQ you want as much headroom as you can get. A lot of our judging tracks have up to 30db of swing. Every component should do what it has to without any added artifacts. I can tune pretty much any speaker to sound the same as another as long as it's within its power and bandwidth limits.

I get it. Frequency response-wise, yes, you can make things sound similar with a frequency response profile. You can absolutely make two different speakers measure the same on an RTA. But in no way does that tell the whole story. You could probably record a sound that originated from a trumpet and compare it to a synthetically created trumpet sound that measures the same as far as frequency response but the character will easily be picked off by the human ear for which one is the simulation. This is in the time domain and is part of the "character" I'm referring to.
Remember that rise and decay thing you referenced? Drivers also store and release energy in different ways from each other. You can only see this in a waterfall plot (some can pick it off in the impedance plot as well). Some are ultra-transparent with their incredible rise and decay times(ribbons, planars) and some are thick sounding without much fine detail being released (woofers that play somewhat high but have resonances and inductance issues). Not many people compare drivers in this regard, using the waterfall plot. Best example I could hope to use as an illustration is a theoretical setup in which two floor standing speakers were mic'd and proven to be providing the same frequency response on axis (we'll stay there) and they are matched in every possible regard to play evenly in level and all that jazz. One is a true ribbon wideband full range driver and the other is a conventional wide band full range driver (for simplicity sake). One of those is going to possess a rise and decay time faster than the other. Thus, the presentation will be more refined and more transparent. One will reveal smaller changes elsewhere in the system that the other may not be able to resolve those details well enough to alert you (or sound different). Drivers also have different polar responses and will fill a space with energy differently because if it. Different speakers have different reactive profiles and will cause an amplifier to present/struggle in different ways because of it.

So many other things and this is really so tricky to discuss because it is ALL about hearing the difference. This is what it's like when you heat a difference in amplifiers that are delivering roughly the same power. And it is by no means a striking or glaring difference. It's more of a subtlety and not likely something you would hear with a short term comparison. It's usually something you notice only once it's gone (if that makes sense). Worse, if you've always had a speaker that doesn't offer the best performance as far as being truly transparent, you were never very likely to hear a difference in the presentation of amplifiers. The subtleties may have always been masked by the limitations of the driver because it was always the limiting factor in system performance. There was a time when I was unaware of this, too. It's something you're much more likely to notice if you had been rolling around with the same gear for years and years, and you then changed speakers that have the same reported frequency response, and really do sound similar in their presentation, but yet there's something to your ears that is lacking. Could simply be the modes traveling in the cone causing energy storage that masks finer details and you don't find it to be as good as the speakers you were just running. Or if you had been rolling around with the same gear for years and years, and then finally switched over to a new amplifier that was proven to deliver the same wattage. You didn't change your drivers or your DSP settings (if applicable) but you somehow heard a difference. The amplifier may not be built the same and can't cope with the reactive profile of the driver in the same fashion as the original amplifier did. The presentation might be slightly different simply due to the "grip" the amplifier has over the driver(s). Best way I can describe that is getting 20 watts from a 25 watt amplifier versus getting 20 watts from 250 watt amplifier. The bass character will not sound the same inside of that 20 watt limit between those two amplifiers. I know, I know; that's loaded. But try it.

 

[ciaonzo 5,000+ posts]

I hope that didn't come off as condescending. I realize not everyone can hear differences in equipment, or that all equipment will even yield a difference to hear. I'm just trying to inspire folks to look beyond watts. Hopefully without getting into the RC challenge territory, lol. Want to avoid that at all costs, lol. But some drivers are much, much better sounding than others. Some amplifiers are much, much better sounding than others. It's not hype, this stuff is out there. Else, we would all be running Audiopie/Skar setups.

 

[LosIsATool 5,000+ posts]

I get it. Frequency response-wise, yes, you can make things sound similar with a frequency response profile. You can absolutely make two different speakers measure the same on an RTA. But in no way does that tell the whole story. You could probably record a sound that originated from a trumpet and compare it to a synthetically created trumpet sound that measures the same as far as frequency response but the character will easily be picked off by the human ear for which one is the simulation. This is in the time domain and is part of the "character" I'm referring to.
Remember that rise and decay thing you referenced? Drivers also store and release energy in different ways from each other. You can only see this in a waterfall plot (some can pick it off in the impedance plot as well). Some are ultra-transparent with their incredible rise and decay times(ribbons, planars) and some are thick sounding without much fine detail being released (woofers that play somewhat high but have resonances and inductance issues). Not many people compare drivers in this regard, using the waterfall plot. Best example I could hope to use as an illustration is a theoretical setup in which two floor standing speakers were mic'd and proven to be providing the same frequency response on axis (we'll stay there) and they are matched in every possible regard to play evenly in level and all that jazz. One is a true ribbon wideband full range driver and the other is a conventional wide band full range driver (for simplicity sake). One of those is going to possess a rise and decay time faster than the other. Thus, the presentation will be more refined and more transparent. One will reveal smaller changes elsewhere in the system that the other may not be able to resolve those details well enough to alert you (or sound different). Drivers also have different polar responses and will fill a space with energy differently because if it. Different speakers have different reactive profiles and will cause an amplifier to present/struggle in different ways because of it.

So many other things and this is really so tricky to discuss because it is ALL about hearing the difference. This is what it's like when you heat a difference in amplifiers that are delivering roughly the same power. And it is by no means a striking or glaring difference. It's more of a subtlety and not likely something you would hear with a short term comparison. It's usually something you notice only once it's gone (if that makes sense). Worse, if you've always had a speaker that doesn't offer the best performance as far as being truly transparent, you were never very likely to hear a difference in the presentation of amplifiers. The subtleties may have always been masked by the limitations of the driver because it was always the limiting factor in system performance. There was a time when I was unaware of this, too. It's something you're much more likely to notice if you had been rolling around with the same gear for years and years, and you then changed speakers that have the same reported frequency response, and really do sound similar in their presentation, but yet there's something to your ears that is lacking. Could simply be the modes traveling in the cone causing energy storage that masks finer details and you don't find it to be as good as the speakers you were just running. Or if you had been rolling around with the same gear for years and years, and then finally switched over to a new amplifier that was proven to deliver the same wattage. You didn't change your drivers or your DSP settings (if applicable) but you somehow heard a difference. The amplifier may not be built the same and can't cope with the reactive profile of the driver in the same fashion as the original amplifier did. The presentation might be slightly different simply due to the "grip" the amplifier has over the driver(s). Best way I can describe that is getting 20 watts from a 25 watt amplifier versus getting 20 watts from 250 watt amplifier. The bass character will not sound the same inside of that 20 watt limit between those two amplifiers. I know, I know; that's loaded. But try it.

I'm on to many pain killers right now to read this. I tried but it's all blurring together. I'll try again later.

I don't know if this has anything to do with it but power itself will make different sound. It effects drivers and the envirement.

But I'll come back here after I sleep this off

 

[ciaonzo 5,000+ posts]

I'm on to many pain killers right now to read this. I tried but it's all blurring together. I'll try again later. I don't know if this has anything to do with it but power itself will make different sound. It effects drivers and the envirement.

But I'll come back here after I sleep this off

No worries, bro. Enjoy the pain relief.

 

[Papermaker85 5,000+ posts]

Slew rate.

im gonna find him and article since he doesn't believe me

 

[evilmonstertruk Premium Member]

I'm a little saddened. I was hoping one of these dyno test would come out and I'd be blown away. I keep putting the HCCA 4000.4 in my cart and taking it out weekly.

What it states if freaking unreal at its price point. I mean it's the largest 4 channel I've ever seen and priced less then mine.

Something has to give.

I have done the same thing with that same amp. I stare at it and wonder how for the price. Same with the XTR. It reminds me of the Lanzar Opti amps

Sent from my LG-H910 using Tapatalk

 

[LosIsATool 5,000+ posts]

im gonna find him and article since he doesn't believe me

It's not that I don't believe you. You can measure it. I say it's not audible which it isn't.

If it was audible I would have what I have in my car. I like to win. If I wasn't winning I would have done swapped them out. I'm sure all the competitors that have way higher incomes then mine wouldn't be using them either.

 

[Papermaker85 5,000+ posts]

It's not that I don't believe you. You can measure it. I say it's not audible which it isn't. If it was audible I would have what I have in my car. I like to win. If I wasn't winning I would have done swapped them out. I'm sure all the competitors that have way higher incomes then mine wouldn't be using them either.

in the right recording and circumstances it is buddy. think of it just as music or sound. you have you typical human voice and backgound noise than BAM gun shots. that its exactly what this test is doing.

 

[LosIsATool 5,000+ posts]

What do you think I listen to? Do you think I tune a car listening to megadeath?

I think we are getting off topic.

My final take, this would be a great amp to run at 2ohm. If it holds up

 

[Papermaker85 5,000+ posts]

just about everything. hell phill collin's in the air tonight is a GREAT example. that drum line comes thought so strong and airy. OGM

 

[LosIsATool 5,000+ posts]

just about everything. hell phill collin's in the air tonight is a GREAT example. that drum line comes thought so strong and airy. OGM

It's not airy. Air is high treble.

 

[MrFoca]

What do you think I listen to? Do you think I tune a car listening to megadeath?
I think we are getting off topic.

My final take, this would be a great amp to run at 2ohm. If it holds up

I'll let you know how it does. One should be here this week and she is going to be ran.