why that was nice

Should i start using crystal meth?

  • Sure...its not that bad...

    Votes: 93 62.0%
  • Just say no!

    Votes: 57 38.0%

  • Total voters
    150
I'm not gonna say where I land on this debate, but I really wish what we could have in the US were HONEST discussion on the bill before Congress.
All this propaganda about euthanasia and death panels, socialism, people storming Town Hall meetings with signs with swastikas on them calling Obama Hitler and whatever else, it just really fvcks up the whole thing. Not only does it cloud the issue horrifically by getting everyone distracted with BS that isn't even a part of the dang bill (so no one can talk about the bill's actual contents), but it even drowns out the opposition by making it look like they're all a bunch of kooks and maniacs.

It's be nice if a liberal and a conservative could sit down on television and actually discuss the merits of the proposal, its legitimate strengths and shortcomings, that way the public is informed about what's actually in there and make a decision. But in the age of 24-hour news networks and sound bytes over reporting, that's too much to ask for.
You make it sound like it is the fault of conservatives that there is not a true "debate." The fact is that they are resorting to such tactics because it is the only way the could slow down the dems, who did not give a dam about a discussion because they felt they had the votes.

So there.

 
Juan is an immigrant. He arrives in America and immediately begins looking for employment. Before finding a job, he must secure food, clothing, and shelter. He may do so from funds brought with him from his native country, or he may depend upon the kindness of family, friends, or charitable organizations here in the United States. In either case, because such transfers are voluntary, no American is harmed.
If Juan resorts to theft, however, the story is different. Some Americans are indeed harmed. But criminal law is the appropriate tool for dealing with such thievery. Restricting immigration on the grounds that a handful of immigrants behave criminally would be like denying drivers licenses to everyone just because a small percentage of people drive recklessly. More focused and less ham-fisted means are available in both cases for weeding out the bad apples from the good.

Juan, however, is no thief. He’s a worker. Suppose that Juan has no skills of any value to any American. He can do nothing that any American is willing to pay for. In this case, Juan will eventually return home. No American is harmed. (Actually, Juan would probably not come to America in the first place. People so destitute of skills are unlikely to leave home in search of work in a foreign and highly competitive economy.)

But Juan is extremely unlikely to lack any skill for which Americans are willing to pay some mutually agreeable wage. Readers who doubt this claim should consult that cornerstone of economics called the theory of comparative advantage—a theory, by the way, that exposes the senselessness of identifying people economically as being "above average" or "below average." The theory of comparative advantage makes clear that everyone is above average at some tasks and below average at many others.

When Juan finds employment, not only is Juan made better off, but so, too, is his employer. Consumers are also made better off, for the higher output or lower cost that Juan’s availability makes possible for his employer is shared with consumers through reduced prices or improved product quality. Nothing to complain of so far.

Some people, however, are harmed by Juan’s availability—namely, American workers who compete with Juan. If Juan’s most marketable skill is nearly identical to the most marketable skill possessed by Sam the American, Juan is a potential rival for Sam’s job. Because of Juan, Sam’s income may fall.

Protecting Sam from income loss, though, is inappropriate. To prevent Juan from entering America is to do nothing more virtuous than to protect Sam from competition. But it is also to prevent George and Bill and other Americans from freely dealing with Juan, who is someone they would otherwise choose to deal with! To restrict immigration is to deny to Americans their freedom of association. Sam, then, becomes a monopolist under immigration restrictions. If Sam suffers income loss when these restrictions are lifted, he is no more worthy of our solicitude than is any other monopolist whose monopoly privilege unravels.

Immigration opponents also fear that open immigration means overcrowding. This worry is overblown. First, the United States is sparsely populated. Second, owners of private property have incentives to keep their properties from being overcrowded. The proper solution to overcrowding is privatizing those property holdings not yet privatized, not forcibly stopping productive people from coming to our country.

Manhattan is one of the most densely populated spots on earth. Yet it is also one of the wealthiest. New Yorkers often complain of crowds, but no one is compelled to live in that city. The reason people live there is because economic opportunity in New York is vast. Living in close contact with lots of people is a price that many of us voluntarily pay for the opportunity to take advantage of the wealth-producing capacities of an extensive division of labor.

New York and Los Angeles are crowded but wealthy. Oklahoma and Mississippi are sparsely populated but much poorer. This fact alone is ample evidence of the great economic benefits of immigration.
I call BS on that. It may not be super populated like China but America is also worried about conservation (somewhat) of it's natural resources and lands. China started building more and more factories (due to cheap labor and jobs going overseas) and now they have some of the most polluted cities on earth which have lead to numerous cancer cases, which in turn cost money to treat. I hate politics because with every pro there is a con, someone is always going to be pissed off about something because it will be hurt them in some way. The healthcare debate is a perfect example of this.

 
hyundai-equus-3.jpg

QUOTE]

I like the rear end on it. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/biggrin.gif.d71a5d36fcbab170f2364c9f2e3946cb.gif
 
Juan works and pays taxes under someone else's SS #
tell that to my wife. she ows 8000$ because 3 different illegals stole her ss # didn't pay taxes. she'll get it cleared up i'm sure, but any illegal who pays taxes is an idiot. just claim 9 exemptions, except 1 person in the house claims 1, and files all the kids under their name for earned income credit money. not only do most not pay taxes, they actually get back more in the end than they ever payed in.

 
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