why that was nice

Should i start using crystal meth?

  • Sure...its not that bad...

    Votes: 93 62.0%
  • Just say no!

    Votes: 57 38.0%

  • Total voters
    150
don't people in small towns frequently not even have a doctor? i saw 1 example of a town in canada using a lottery system to decide who gets to go to the city for a doctor. they don't have a doctor in town period because the bigger metro area needed them. this could be an isolated incident, or it could be wider spread. that's 1 possible disadvantage of the canadian system that wouldn't show up in that statistic. again, i've done no personal research into that story. it might have been a town of 80 people.
i could name a dozen towns within 60 miles of where i live without any medical services besides 911 which could take quite a while to arrive.

 
I LOVE how dems always resort to, "other countries are doing it and it works fine". well, lets take a look at this shall we.
The health care billl being passed IS NOT the same as the health care used in other countries. Even if it were, lets look at a few small issues shall we.

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"• NHS targets ‘may have lead to 1,200 deaths’ in Mid-Staffordshire

• 11 serious errors a day in NHS surgery

• War hero refused treatment by NHS

• Patients forced to live in agony after NHS refuses to pay for painkilling injections

• Patients with suspected cancer forced to wait so NHS targets can be hit"

"The failure of Canada's experiment with socialist medicine is readily apparent: long waiting lists and wait times for specialized services, conveyor-belt treatment for routine services, chronic shortages of family doctors and hospital beds, gross inefficiencies, slow innovation, stifling and wasteful bureaucracies, warring "special-interest" groups, and the exodus of good doctors to greener, freer pastures.

It's still illegal in Canada for private healthcare providers to compete with the government monopoly. Only North Korea and Cuba—two impoverished, brutal, communist dictatorships—still retain such restrictions. And there have been increasing accounts of Canadians suffering severe pain and even dying while waiting months or years for treatments that are readily available in countries that allow private healthcare.

So when the Canadian election was called several months ago, one might have thought that at least one political party was willing to promise, if elected, to de-monopolize healthcare to some extent at least. However, none of the five significant parties—not even Stephen Harper's "right-wing" Conservative Party—would dare make such a promise. Why not? Because despite how impractical the Canadian healthcare system is, many Canadians regard it as moral. It's a classic case of accepting a moral code that clashes with reality and harms people.

The moral code underlying Canada's healthcare system can be inferred from how it is practiced. Everyone has free and equal access to healthcare providers (which naturally generates a lot of demand). Providers bill the government for services rendered. Government pays providers with the money it extorts via highly progressive taxation. Government has the power to restrict healthcare spending (which logically leads to long waiting lists and wait times).

The basic moral principle is egalitarianism—the belief that everyone must be given equal rewards regardless of performance or behavior. Everyone gets equal access to healthcare regardless of what they pay in taxes. And what one pays is independent of how much one uses the system. Egalitarianism is a species of altruism—the moral code which advocates self-sacrifice to others. (The opposite code is rational self-interest or rational egoism whereby each individual pursues their own well being and happiness—neither sacrificing oneself to others nor others to oneself—and social interaction is voluntary, not coerced.)

For healthcare consumers, the egalitarian message is obvious. Don't bother working hard to achieve success for you will only be condemned as "the haves," taxed of your "excess," prevented from securing better healthcare, and told to go to the back of the line. Don't bother being responsible regarding your health because it won't affect what you pay in taxes or what services you get "for free." Imagine the impact on a hard-working teenager if his parents seized his earnings from a part-time job and distributed it—in the name of equality—among his ambitionless siblings.

As for health-care providers, the egalitarian message is also obvious. Study hard for years; work long and grueling hours; develop life-saving skills, but government will dictate your employer and compensation. The public demands high-quality services regardless of the extent to which your freedom and interests are being sacrificed to the "public good"—to hell with individual rights.

Form this one can extract the egalitarian notion of justice: Punish those who are creative, productive and responsible in order to reward those who (for whatever reason) are not. But if justice is the policy of granting to each person what he or she deserves, then egalitarianism is unjust. The champions of egalitarianism seem oblivious to what makes wealth and medical technology possible. They want us to believe that they can punish and enslave achievers and still have piles of money to seize and distribute—that high-quality services and technological advances are possible in a society where those who are ambitious and productive are sacrificed in the name of helping those who are not.

Given this moral code of egalitarianism, it's not surprising that Canada's healthcare system is so impractical.

Now consider today's wonderful trend of being offered higher quality computer products and services at ever lower prices, and what would happen if governments seized control and established a government-controlled monopoly offering free computing to all. What would happen to the computer innovators, product/service quality, real costs and government debt? Pretty much what has happened with the Canadian healthcare system.

Why is it immoral to personally benefit from one's own success? Surely, someone's computer innovation or breakthrough medical discovery is not stolen from those who didn't innovate. The aspirations and abilities of people vary immensely, and they expect to be, and should be, rewarded accordingly for their efforts and achievements. An opposite policy—an egalitarian policy—destroys the motivation to innovate and succeed.

Or consider socialist medicine from a somewhat different angle. When government has the power to extort money from people to pay for government services such as healthcare, the providers become directly responsible to bureaucrats, politicians and "special-interest" groups—not to patients. When the patient retains the power to financially reward providers for good service, providers will compete for the money by offering better quality at lower prices, which is what we get in the relatively unregulated computer industry.

There is no rational argument in favor of socialist medicine. It persists in Canada primarily because the majority of Canadians have accepted an irrational and impractical moral code—egalitarianism—which remains virtually unchallenged. Only when this moral code is widely challenged and debunked, will Canadians experience a significant improvement in healthcare. Americans should be wary when politicians such as Hillary Clinton and Ted Kennedy try to glorify the Canadian healthcare system."

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I'm sorry, I shall resort back to the special pieces in the HEALTH CARE BILL being proposed.

Counseling, Section 1233, pg. 425. Upon reaching a certain age, you will be required to attend a counseling session on how to die, which includes different methods to help in this process. If you get a fatal illness such as cancer, you will need to be counseled again. There is a formula for rationing care determined by age and the proposed cost of the procedure to insure cost effectiveness. Government will determine the compensation of doctors.

Money, Section 163, pg. 59. This gives the government access to all of your financial information, checking and savings accounts, IRAs, etc., for electronic money transfer.

Tax, Section 401, 598, pg. 167. If you elect not to have health care, or cannot afford health care, the government will put a 2.5 percent tax on your income.

Free Healthcare, Section 152, pg. 50. However, health care to non-citizens (illegal aliens) will be free.

So continue ******* your hippie big government democratic d!cks if you want, but fact is fact.
You're an idiot ... The problem with our health care system relates to the following:
1) We have terrible population density. We're physically the largest country in the world and have 10% of the population of the US. This means we have to have hospitals that support only thousands of people, which is extremely inefficient. This isn't a problem in the US.

2) Our government has to balance the economy (taxes) with health care funding (as well as funding for other programs). A difficult task to maintain such a system due to reason #1. This wouldn't be an issue in the US as if you took a small fraction away from the military budget (which is astronomical and unnecessary), it could easily fund a public health care system. The US has the population density to easily support it with a minor increase to personal and commercial taxes w/o compromising military spending.

3) Our provincial and federal governments have been prioritizing the economy over health care for the past decade (or more in some provinces). 10 years ago, wait times were next to nothing in BC. Lower taxes, lower funding to reduce national debt, etc. Again, the US wouldn't have to make such compromises.

Congratulations, you're ignorant ...

 
don't people in small towns frequently not even have a doctor? i saw 1 example of a town in canada using a lottery system to decide who gets to go to the city for a doctor. they don't have a doctor in town period because the bigger metro area needed them. this could be an isolated incident, or it could be wider spread. that's 1 possible disadvantage of the canadian system that wouldn't show up in that statistic. again, i've done no personal research into that story. it might have been a town of 80 people.
Even if that is true, it would be due to lack of funding because of the inefficiencies of Canada as a country (extremely low population density, governments prioritizing economy over health care lately) which wouldn't be a problem in the much more densely populated US with substantially higher tax income thanks to substantially more commercial tax income per capita.
 
You're an idiot ... The problem with our health care system relates to the following:
1) We have terrible population density. We're physically the largest country in the world and have 10% of the population of the US. This means we have to have hospitals that support only thousands of people, which is extremely inefficient. This isn't a problem in the US.

.
//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/fyi.gif.9f1f679348da7204ce960cfc74bca8e0.gif he didnt write that //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/fyi.gif.9f1f679348da7204ce960cfc74bca8e0.gif

and while i agree he is an idiot, i just want to say there are plenty of rural areas here where health care is an issue.

The federal government just gives out money to small towns to keep their hospitals going. Bush actually expanded a grant program to help pay for rural hospitals.

 
//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/fyi.gif.9f1f679348da7204ce960cfc74bca8e0.gif he didnt write that //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/fyi.gif.9f1f679348da7204ce960cfc74bca8e0.gif
and while i agree he is an idiot, i just want to say there are plenty of rural areas here where health care is an issue.

The federal government just gives out money to small towns to keep their hospitals going. Bush actually expanded a grant program to help pay for rural hospitals.
I'm fully aware of that, but keep in mind that Canada has to have medical facilities in many towns that only have hundreds of people because of their remote locations (see pretty much all Northern Canadian communities). Outside of Alaska, the US doesn't have such problems.
 
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