What's up with tuning to 35hz?

[germanyt 10+ year member]

I think it's a safe zone. Some people tune low and ruin the sound because of volume and port area. Some tune high and are really disappointed with the roll off down low. 35 is kind of generic. It's a range where even if you go 10 or 15 sq inches port per volume or go 10-20% too large or small on the enclosure you could have minimal reduction in sq or spl. So if you don't know how to model an enclosure on a computer (I don't) and you don't intend to try several enclosures to find the best for your application you go generic. 12 sq inches of port, 2 cubes per 12, 35hz.

 

[oceanhawk]

35hz has better bandwidth towards reaching radio music bass and decaf style bass.
Tuning 32hz and lower leaves music on the radio with weak bass.

38hz and higher is better for burps and just daily music on the radio.

So in general 35hz would be a all around middle tuning

Sent from my Z970 using Tapatalk

Awsome. Straight to the point. Just the kind of info i like.

 

[los33]

Awsome. Straight to the point. Just the kind of info i like.

That info is mainly why, but each sub has its own best frequency tuning.

Sent from my Z970 using Tapatalk

 

[Boomin_tahoe 5,000+ posts]

35 is popular anyway.

If it was me, I wouldn't go any higher than that for daily listening.

Most prefabs are a lot higher, which is stupid.

 

[Roland 10+ year member]

There is more to it than just the tuning frequency. Port area plays a huge roll.

I know too small of a port can have chuffing and too large you can lose back pressure. But with those 2 extremes what roll does port area play?

I've tried to find info on how port area related to sound of a Sub with no luck. When I model a Sub I see no difference on the software ether.

 

[LosIsATool 5,000+ posts]

I know too small of a port can have chuffing and too large you can lose back pressure. But with those 2 extremes what roll does port area play?
I've tried to find info on how port area related to sound of a Sub with no luck. When I model a Sub I see no difference on the software ether.

To much port you will get a peak and faster roll off. Not enough you will get noise and a lack of output.

It's all about the ratio of port area and net airspace.

 

[Roland 10+ year member]

Not so much at home, but I like to force alignments in the vehicle. Once you understand the thermal and mechanical limits of any driver, you can make it do what you want as lone as you respect both thermal and mechanical limits. This assumes the driver is the type of driver that wants to see a vented alignment to begin with, proper Qts, BL... that sort of thing. The rest is down to what you're after in terms of total system requirements, combined with your personal tastes. I'm talking music here, bandwidth AND power.
I personally love the region between 15hz and 28hz so, naturally, I tune to around 16-22hz. This controls cone motion into the teens and gives me incredible output because the enclosure is obviously most efficient here. The only concern is thermal handling in this region. I tend to hand over freqencies above 50hz to my front stage so I cross at around 40-50hz. My total effective bandwidth is usually from 12Hz to 50Hz so the majority of driver excursion takes place in the small region above my low tuning point and this is now mainly limited by the enclosure size and my applied low pass freq/Q. The bigger the enclosure, the more likely the driver will unload above tuning if too much power is applied. So higher power, smaller airspace. Overall, for my bandwidth, great cone control and lower distortion while reaching down into the teens. Yes, you will give up some overall output but not as much as people think. This type of tuning is far louder to the ear than the mic and is much more useful for musical listening enjoyment anyhow.

People tuning @ 35 are missing out on quite a bit since unloading beneath tuning creates out of phase energy pumping out of that vent, lol. Starting well before you've even begun to dip into the

I'm a newb when it comes to boxes, but this statement " I tune between 16-22hz" baffles me. What sub are you talking about that can be tuned down to 16hz. And isn't cabin gain in a car going to play a big role in what you hear? You must have some monster mid bass crossed very low to keep up with the cabin gain. Doesn't seem practical to tune that low. I guess a lot depends on the music you listen to.

 

[Roland 10+ year member]

To much port you will get a peak and faster roll off. Not enough you will get noise and a lack of output.
It's all about the ratio of port area and net airspace.

Cool thanks. I was considering changing my ports from 3" Aero's to 4" I was thinking it might increase in the 32hz tuning area.

Any recommended reading on this subject?

 

[hispls 5,000+ posts]

I'm a newb when it comes to boxes, but this statement " I tune between 16-22hz" baffles me. What sub are you talking about that can be tuned down to 16hz. And isn't cabin gain in a car going to play a big role in what you hear? You must have some monster mid bass crossed very low to keep up with the cabin gain. Doesn't seem practical to tune that low. I guess a lot depends on the music you listen to.

Probably he is using more home theater oriented woofers to tune that low. Peaks and nulls (to some extent) related to the room can be EQ'd flat. IMO tuning that low for the sake of playing below 30hz is pretty pointless unless you are watching movies, but depending on the sub you'll want to tune very low to get a flat response. Most HT subs are designed to play flat down to 20hz or a little lower in the correct box.

Cool thanks. I was considering changing my ports from 3" Aero's to 4" I was thinking it might increase in the 32hz tuning area.
Any recommended reading on this subject?

I'm going to guess that any SPL gains there will be inaudible. "Too large" port would be when you're getting into over 50% of the cone area in port area.

 

[ciaonzo 5,000+ posts]

I'm a newb when it comes to boxes, but this statement " I tune between 16-22hz" baffles me. What sub are you talking about that can be tuned down to 16hz. And isn't cabin gain in a car going to play a big role in what you hear? You must have some monster mid bass crossed very low to keep up with the cabin gain. Doesn't seem practical to tune that low. I guess a lot depends on the music you listen to.

Probably he is using more home theater oriented woofers to tune that low. Peaks and nulls (to some extent) related to the room can be EQ'd flat. IMO tuning that low for the sake of playing below 30hz is pretty pointless unless you are watching movies, but depending on the sub you'll want to tune very low to get a flat response. Most HT subs are designed to play flat down to 20hz or a little lower in the correct box.

Indeed, I always have goo goo gobs of potent front stage bass so that I can cross low and get my midbass from the drivers that should be providing it - midbass drivers. I once had a tiny Toyota truck with 10" Vifa drivers in the door that played effortlessly down into the 30's. I usually run 8"s but I currently run four Anarchy 6" midbass.
So yeah, I basically make an enclosure that has the volume and resonance I need for a given power level, then "drive" that enclosure with a quality driver, much like hispls indicated. This is why I call it a forced alignment, it's in the same vein as your LLT and EBS.

Overall, though, the reason I do this is to keep group delay and distortion down when trying to reproduce these subsonics with authority and true pitch definition. Excursion is kept in check and thermal is usually the limiting factor with a small but very acceptable compromise by way of output. Being able to hear the difference between a 17Hz and 18Hz tone is exciting to me. I realize that's not everyone's thing, I'm okay with that. Some will say there is nothing in that region but I love providing an alternative viewpoint with a friendly demo when I can. I had a particular setup that was insane @ 15Hz. It provided awe-jawed responses every time.

But think about it- most of your subwoofer's distortion comes from high excursion causing major amounts of mechanical noise, high THD, and wildly varying parameters. Most will be familiar with the fact that to go from 50Hz to 25Hz, the driver is required to move 4 times as far (sealed alignment). So for every octave you drop down, cone motion increases by 4 times, you run into mechanical limits very quickly if you're after the lowest frequencies with a low distortion, high authority presentation. A very visceral one. It seems obvious to me to tune in that region to keep cone motion under control and have that kind of output. It's much easier on the driver to allow for the higher excursion to occur at the frequencies above tuning and let the enclosure volume be the dominant factor there.

It's an unorthodox approach, I know. But it works. I have never killed a driver in vehicle by reaching mechanical or thermal limits. How many can say that?

 

[adulbrich 5,000+ posts]

Indeed, I always have goo goo gobs of potent front stage bass so that I can cross low and get my midbass from the drivers that should be providing it - midbass drivers. I once had a tiny Toyota truck with 10" Vifa drivers in the door that played effortlessly down into the 30's. I usually run 8"s but I currently run four Anarchy 6" midbass.
So yeah, I basically make an enclosure that has the volume and resonance I need for a given power level, then "drive" that enclosure with a quality driver, much like hispls indicated. This is why I call it a forced alignment, it's in the same vein as your LLT and EBS.

Overall, though, the reason I do this is to keep group delay and distortion down when trying to reproduce these subsonics with authority and true pitch definition. Excursion is kept in check and thermal is usually the limiting factor with a small but very acceptable compromise by way of output. Being able to hear the difference between a 17Hz and 18Hz tone is exciting to me. I realize that's not everyone's thing, I'm okay with that. Some will say there is nothing in that region but I love providing an alternative viewpoint with a friendly demo when I can. I had a particular setup that was insane @ 15Hz. It provided awe-jawed responses every time.

But think about it- most of your subwoofer's distortion comes from high excursion causing major amounts of mechanical noise, high THD, and wildly varying parameters. Most will be familiar with the fact that to go from 50Hz to 25Hz, the driver is required to move 4 times as far (sealed alignment). So for every octave you drop down, cone motion increases by 4 times, you run into mechanical limits very quickly if you're after the lowest frequencies with a low distortion, high authority presentation. A very visceral one. It seems obvious to me to tune in that region to keep cone motion under control and have that kind of output. It's much easier on the driver to allow for the higher excursion to occur at the frequencies above tuning and let the enclosure volume be the dominant factor there.

It's an unorthodox approach, I know. But it works. I have never killed a driver in vehicle by reaching mechanical or thermal limits. How many can say that?

I can. Never blown a sub.

 

[Roland 10+ year member]

Indeed, I always have goo goo gobs of potent front stage bass so that I can cross low and get my midbass from the drivers that should be providing it - midbass drivers. I once had a tiny Toyota truck with 10" Vifa drivers in the door that played effortlessly down into the 30's. I usually run 8"s but I currently run four Anarchy 6" midbass.
So yeah, I basically make an enclosure that has the volume and resonance I need for a given power level, then "drive" that enclosure with a quality driver, much like hispls indicated. This is why I call it a forced alignment, it's in the same vein as your LLT and EBS.

Overall, though, the reason I do this is to keep group delay and distortion down when trying to reproduce these subsonics with authority and true pitch definition. Excursion is kept in check and thermal is usually the limiting factor with a small but very acceptable compromise by way of output. Being able to hear the difference between a 17Hz and 18Hz tone is exciting to me. I realize that's not everyone's thing, I'm okay with that. Some will say there is nothing in that region but I love providing an alternative viewpoint with a friendly demo when I can. I had a particular setup that was insane @ 15Hz. It provided awe-jawed responses every time.

But think about it- most of your subwoofer's distortion comes from high excursion causing major amounts of mechanical noise, high THD, and wildly varying parameters. Most will be familiar with the fact that to go from 50Hz to 25Hz, the driver is required to move 4 times as far (sealed alignment). So for every octave you drop down, cone motion increases by 4 times, you run into mechanical limits very quickly if you're after the lowest frequencies with a low distortion, high authority presentation. A very visceral one. It seems obvious to me to tune in that region to keep cone motion under control and have that kind of output. It's much easier on the driver to allow for the higher excursion to occur at the frequencies above tuning and let the enclosure volume be the dominant factor there.

It's an unorthodox approach, I know. But it works. I have never killed a driver in vehicle by reaching mechanical or thermal limits. How many can say that?

Nothing wrong with onorthox if it works. I didn't like lower midbass in my door's so I got some Pro Audio " subs" crossed at 125hz and they sound great doing it. That allowed me to get my JL Z800 gone and it didn't change my sound stage at all. The vibration on my legs from my door's at high volume was driving me nuts, so yeah I totally get unorthodox.

I am curious as to what I am missing below 25hz. I was considering adding something for just for the under 30hz stuff. Maybe a Stereo Integrigty HST12 because it doesn't take up much space In a 1 foot cube. I guess I'm going to have to hear for myself if there is something down that low that can't live without.

 

[ciaonzo 5,000+ posts]

Nothing wrong with onorthox if it works. I didn't like lower midbass in my door's so I got some Pro Audio " subs" crossed at 125hz and they sound great doing it. That allowed me to get my JL Z800 gone and it didn't change my sound stage at all. The vibration on my legs from my door's at high volume was driving me nuts, so yeah I totally get unorthodox.
I am curious as to what I am missing below 25hz. I was considering adding something for just for the under 30hz stuff. Maybe a Stereo Integrigty HST12 because it doesn't take up much space In a 1 foot cube. I guess I'm going to have to hear for myself if there is something down that low that can't live without.

There's honestly not much "music" below 25Hz but that's the wrong way to think about it, solely looking for musical content below 25Hz. It's out there, for sure. But not much. Bass discs, electronica, etc...
The correct way to think about it is content, period. Is there content? Did the artist intend for it to be there? Is it a sound that was engineered and placed at a beat interval? Is it a byproduct of sampling or similar? Is it the effect of a large "living and breathing" sound hall? Does it makes sense to implement a system that delivers this visceral content as a small component of the overall presentation? For most folks that answer is truly no, and I honestly understand that. It's not always practical and most aren't after it anyhow. Undoubtedly, the answer will be a resounding 'no' on this site as most are after every last tenth of a dB even if it's at the cost of anything resembling music. Me? I like a subwoofer to do what a subwoofer was intended to do - play subsonic frequencies and smoothly hand off to the front stage. And whether any subsonic content exists by way of music or byproduct, I want it to be part of the overall presentation. That shifting of air all around me without any mechanical distortion to bring my attention to the subwoofer in the rear is what it's all about for me. Not really after the deebeez.

 

[sharkman]

I messed up with my tuning. I can't remember the numbers but I did built the box for decaf. But after I went thru. All the Zips I had which was like 40 I really didn't find many songs I liked. Now my system sounds ok only on some songs...

 

[murph 10+ year member]

There's honestly not much "music" below 25Hz but that's the wrong way to think about it, solely looking for musical content below 25Hz. It's out there, for sure. But not much. Bass discs, electronica, etc...
The correct way to think about it is content, period. Is there content? Did the artist intend for it to be there? Is it a sound that was engineered and placed at a beat interval? Is it a byproduct of sampling or similar? Is it the effect of a large "living and breathing" sound hall? Does it makes sense to implement a system that delivers this visceral content as a small component of the overall presentation? For most folks that answer is truly no, and I honestly understand that. It's not always practical and most aren't after it anyhow. Undoubtedly, the answer will be a resounding 'no' on this site as most are after every last tenth of a dB even if it's at the cost of anything resembling music. Me? I like a subwoofer to do what a subwoofer was intended to do - play subsonic frequencies and smoothly hand off to the front stage. And whether any subsonic content exists by way of music or byproduct, I want it to be part of the overall presentation. That shifting of air all around me without any mechanical distortion to bring my attention to the subwoofer in the rear is what it's all about for me. Not really after the deebeez.

Why don't you run cyclones? I know you love TC sounds but, nothing beats a cyclone that low. Also do you know anyone selling a gen one tumult?