What is the difference between a Profile amp and a McIntosh amp???

[Haunz 10+ year member]

I have taken Metalurgy. When a liquid cools to a solid form, it forms crystals. The faster it cools the smaller the crystal. The slower it cools the larger the crystal(s) it forms. As for how this pertains to audio, the more the crystals the more noise can be introduced. (do you also want me to explain how electricity flows from Neg to Pos? or how a lightening strike starts from the earth [neg]?). Yes I took electronics too. expand your mind young man.
Any child can find this out for themselves with water and a refridgerator. Try it n2audio. try some science and you may just find reason. Ask your mommy first before using the freezer, and don't stick your tongue to the ice //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/rolleyes.gif.c1fef805e9d1464d377451cd5bc18bfb.gif (please don't make me expain that one too)

Other then that, yes this is a lost cause... trying to explain how sh!t works to someone trying to justify their use of crap //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif

Knowing a thing or two about material science/chemistry I can tell you that copper can form into more then one crystal lattice.. and you are correct that how the metal is processed can change the lattices formed and degree of perturbation in that lattice... but that will only effect the final impedance of the material (as far as we are concearned anyway); and if you think that the minute difference in resistance between two cables in the 20-20Khz range could be audible when added in series with the 10,000+ ohm input impedance of an amplifier then you truly are from the land of the lost.... //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/crazy.gif.c13912c32de98515d3142759a824dae7.gif

 

[n2audio 5,000+ posts]

Any child can find this out for themselves with water and a refridgerator. Try it n2audio. try some science and you may just find reason. Ask your mommy first before using the freezer, and don't stick your tongue to the ice //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/rolleyes.gif.c1fef805e9d1464d377451cd5bc18bfb.gif (please don't make me expain that one too)

Other then that, yes this is a lost cause... trying to explain how sh!t works to someone trying to justify their use of crap //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif

Dude - you're not remotely as bright as you seem to think you are.

Water freezes when it gets cold?? No shit?? I'm so glad you pointed that out for me. I'm sure others have been enlightened as well.

I had metallurgy too, my instructor actually had a PhD in metallurgy and spent summers in NASA's material research dept in Huntsville - where a few classmates and I got to tour on our sr. design trip //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

We had a project once where we polished and etched several different aluminum samples we cast using different alloying elements, and heat treatments. The objective was to recognize the difference in grain structure/size of each sample. So no, I am not an armchair quarterback when it comes to basic metallurgy.

Anyway -- since you're not seeing the forest through the trees...

the question isn't whether annealing is essential in the production of wire - it's at what point does the precision of the process become a non-issue in relation to a person's hearing, and your concerns with the specific grain structure of the wire are utterly ridiculous. But you're the guy with pockets full of cash, so you should spend it however you see fit.

Wires are the easiest target for the psychoacoustics companies because they're easy to build, dress up, package, and market.

http://www.audioholics.com/education/cables/top-ten-signs-an-audio-cable-vendor-is-selling-you-snake-oil

Besides - if you were a real audiofool, sorry, audiophile, you'd be using silver cables. They sound SO much cleaner than copper. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

Marketing departments live by the adage...

A fool and his money are soon parted.

 

[audiolife 5,000+ posts]

I wouldnt go as far as say last as long as I have seen a couple macs from the early 90s still going strong and I doubt the same could be made for the profile. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif
But I doubt many would be able to hear the difference.

a buddy of mine still has amplifires made by pyramid in his 79 camaro....we put those same amplifiers in in 88 or 89 //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/laugh.gif.48439b2acf2cfca21620f01e7f77d1e4.gif only thing that has changed are the sub and the 6x9's and the front speakers...o0 yes and of course the cd player

 

[garrettpf 10+ year member]

So, if all this is true. where as cabling does not make a difference... then what is the hype about how good the components are in an amp.

You idiots, you are telling me that components make a difference even though they are made out of the same basic materials as cable?

So one of you geniuses tell me what makes them better? Why is one FET better then the other when they are really made with the same shit. Then the speed of a processors is BS too. Oh, and BGA technology is a total wash of shit. I mean surface mount is should be just as fast.

Holy crap, all these years I have been paying for milk when it is just basically water. And shit, water is free.

God I am an idiot.

 

[audiolife 5,000+ posts]

So, if all this is true. where as cabling does not make a difference... then what is the hype about how good the components are in an amp.
You idiots, you are telling me that components make a difference even though they are made out of the same basic materials as cable?

So one of you geniuses tell me what makes them better? Why is one FET better then the other when they are really made with the same shit. Then the speed of a processors is BS too. Oh, and BGA technology is a total wash of shit. I mean surface mount is should be just as fast.

Holy crap, all these years I have been paying for milk when it is just basically water. And shit, water is free.

God I am an idiot.

components actually do more than just conduct

if your cables mean so much then shouldnt EVERY conductor inside your amplifiers have just as high of quality traces and wire inside?

 

[helotaxi 5,000+ posts]

I have taken Metalurgy. When a liquid cools to a solid form, it forms crystals. The faster it cools the smaller the crystal. The slower it cools the larger the crystal(s) it forms. As for how this pertains to audio, the more the crystals the more noise can be introduced. (do you also want me to explain how electricity flows from Neg to Pos? or how a lightening strike starts from the earth [neg]?). Yes I took electronics too. expand your mind young man.
Any child can find this out for themselves with water and a refridgerator. Try it n2audio. try some science and you may just find reason. Ask your mommy first before using the freezer, and don't stick your tongue to the ice //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/rolleyes.gif.c1fef805e9d1464d377451cd5bc18bfb.gif (please don't make me expain that one too)

Other then that, yes this is a lost cause... trying to explain how sh!t works to someone trying to justify their use of crap //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif

You didn't pass that metallurgy class did you? Water freezing has zero in common on how the crystaline matrix of a metal forms other than both are the transition from liquid to solid. Different struture on the molecular level entirely, or do I need to explain basic chemistry to you? The difference from a "single crystal" (which ceases to be single as soon as you flex the cable even slightly) and a wire drawn normally without any stupidity, is measurable in nanofarads of capacitance and nanoohms of resistance. That would mean that it would have an effect on the signal if the signal was in the MHZ to GHz range and the signal loss would be only a few thousandths of a dB per mile of cable. That's some hearing that a bat would be envious of.

If you actually had part of a clue on how stuff worked, you'd quickly realize that you wasted a LOT of money. Distortion is introduced through capacitance and inductance of the signal transmission cable. If you can't measure a difference that will affect the audible frequency range, your ears, being the ratshit measuring devices that they are, certainly won't detect a difference. You might convince yourself otherwise, but you're only lying to yourself. If you're good with that, whatever, but I can find much better places in my audio system to spend $2500 dollars than some speaker wire (the sheer stupidity of that amazes me) that will actually have a measureable and clearly audible difference.

You can continue to think what you want, but no real science is on your side of the argument, just a but of pseudo-science, half truths baked up by a marketing department to part suckers from a lot of money.

 

[n2audio 5,000+ posts]

So, if all this is true. where as cabling does not make a difference... then what is the hype about how good the components are in an amp.
You idiots, you are telling me that components make a difference even though they are made out of the same basic materials as cable?

LOL -- WE'RE the idiots...

//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/rolleyes.gif.c1fef805e9d1464d377451cd5bc18bfb.gif

C'mon man, put down the shovel.

That's like saying, "Since this fart cannon muffler won't give me any additional torque - why should I mess with a performance engineered cam?"

We all like good cables and equipment and for good reason, but most people are capable of recognizing that's not where SQ comes from. A set of REAL nice unbalanced interconnects should set a person back no more than $50 or so.

There are plenty of forums out there that would love a goofball like you talking about their "warm" cables and how they "smooth out the highs" etc. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/rolleyes.gif.c1fef805e9d1464d377451cd5bc18bfb.gif

Go find one.

 

[Haunz 10+ year member]

So, if all this is true. where as cabling does not make a difference... then what is the hype about how good the components are in an amp.
So one of you geniuses tell me what makes them better? Why is one FET better then the other when they are really made with the same shit. Then the speed of a processors is BS too. Oh, and BGA technology is a total wash of shit. I mean surface mount is should be just as fast.

Who is saying one fet is better then another ?

You may find many measurable differences in the output signal from different amplifiers... and no doubt a mac would test better then a profile.... but it's been shown time and time again through scientific ABX testing that there is no audible difference between amplifiers driven below the point of clipping...

/thread

 

[ultimate157 5,000+ posts]

/thread

If only that actually worked. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/crap.gif.7f4dd41e3e9b23fbd170a1ee6f65cecc.gif

 

[garrettpf 10+ year member]

Dang it, my book and eyes have been fools all these years (oh and my ears too).

The test with water that we did in class was slow cool versus dropping into a freezer immediately. I have a picture of the slow cooled water which turned out to be one single crystal 14" across. When I find it I will post it.

 

[iamamp3pimp 5,000+ posts]

what does that have to do with anything?

what Helotaxi was getting at is that there is no measureable difference betwen the two, not which crystal, or method of creating such crystal, was more efficent,

 

[garrettpf 10+ year member]

Water freezing has zero in common on how the crystaline matrix of a metal forms other than both are the transition from liquid to solid. Different struture on the molecular level entirely.

A transformation from a liquid to a solid is exactly what crystalization is. no matter it be metal, water or even a rock.

The guys has no clue what he is talking about. lmao

 

[helotaxi 5,000+ posts]

They're both crystals, no shit...therein the similarity ends. Do you know what the difference is between a similarity and a congruence? I can grow a giant sugar crystal, too. That must be the same as well cause crystals are all the same...how'd you confirm the single crystal? Electron microscope? It's actually pretty easy to flash freeze water into perfectly clear ice if you know what you're doing. The fact remains that as soon as you flex the "perfect" copper wire you fracture the hell out of your stupid "single crystal." Did you bother covering work hardening and metal fatigue in your sacred class?

You're right I have no clue what Im' talking about and neither does everyone else here telling you that you're daft. I'm sure that's the reality of it all and we're just too stupid to see it, especially the EE up there who says you're full of it.

You're the most dangerous kind of ****. The one who thinks he knows it all because he has a tiny bit of knowledge that he has no concept how to actually apply, much less how that little bit on knowledge relates to the big picture that he hasn't learned yet, and also is so convinced of his own superiority of knowledge that it impossible for him to accept the possibilty that he could be clueless because it would shatter his fragile little ego and ruin his tenious sense of self worth.

 

[garrettpf 10+ year member]

They're both crystals, no shit...therein the similarity ends. Do you know what the difference is between a similarity and a congruence? I can grow a giant sugar crystal, too. That must be the same as well cause crystals are all the same...how'd you confirm the single crystal? Electron microscope? It's actually pretty easy to flash freeze water into perfectly clear ice if you know what you're doing. The fact remains that as soon as you flex the "perfect" copper wire you fracture the hell out of your stupid "single crystal." Did you bother covering work hardening and metal fatigue in your sacred class?
You're right I have no clue what Im' talking about and neither does everyone else here telling you that you're daft. I'm sure that's the reality of it all and we're just too stupid to see it, especially the EE up there who says you're full of it.

You're the most dangerous kind of ****. The one who thinks he knows it all because he has a tiny bit of knowledge that he has no concept how to actually apply, much less how that little bit on knowledge relates to the big picture that he hasn't learned yet, and also is so convinced of his own superiority of knowledge that it impossible for him to accept the possibilty that he could be clueless because it would shatter his fragile little ego and ruin his tenious sense of self worth.

Wow, you are clueless. I give up.

 

[w00tah 10+ year member]

Wow, you are clueless. I give up.

You are giving up because you are wrong.

Admit that to yourself, you'll feel a bit better.

Kef