What is the difference between a Profile amp and a McIntosh amp???

[scarolinablazin 10+ year member]

I wouldnt go as far as say last as long as I have seen a couple macs from the early 90s still going strong and I doubt the same could be made for the profile. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif
But I doubt many would be able to hear the difference.

i`ve seen/had some of the old profiles from the 90`s in the last year or so. any equipment will last forever as long as its taken care of. just like any equipment will fail if its abused

 

[mokedaddy 5,000+ posts]

i`ve seen/had some of the old profiles from the 90`s in the last year or so. any equipment will last forever as long as its taken care of. just like any equipment will fail if its abused

While the profile comment may be true, you cant always say as long as its taken care of it will last and if you abuse it, it wont.

There are exceptions to every rule. And can offer examples both ways. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

 

[helotaxi 5,000+ posts]

I would like to think that the QA with Macs is going to be better than profile. Also the variation from the reference should be better.
I mean if your running resistors that have a +/- .05 variance that can be a pretty big change from the original design. Also, I'm guessing Mcintosh makes a better profit on the audio equipment which gives them a better budget for R&D so you get better technology in the equipment.

That's probably quite true, however, where do you draw the line? If the designer of the Profile has half a clue what he's doing, he specs the components in the amp to make sure that with the widest deviation from the nominal value will still allow it to make all its ratings. That allows the use of cheaper components and keeps the costs down while still allowing the customer to get a known quantity. You know that it will, at WORST, do what it says. Chances are good that it will do better. As far as extra r&d money, seriously doubt it. More advertising money to convice those that listen with their eyes that they must have McIntosh if they want SQ, probably.

As far as long term reliability, at 6x the price it had better last at least 6x as long. Since electronics usually either fail during the warranty period or never (barring abuse) that would be pretty hard to do. I have a bunch of amps from the early 90's that are still working great that, while not budget, were nowhere near the price of the McIntosh.

Sorry I lump "audiophile" amps with outrageous prices in with the same hoodoo as "audiphile" wire. There are much better places to spend your money than either that will actually have an *audible* effect on the system.

 

[mokedaddy 5,000+ posts]

^^^That's probably quite true, however, where do you draw the line? If the designer of the Profile has half a clue what he's doing, he specs the components in the amp to make sure that with the widest deviation from the nominal value will still allow it to make all its ratings. That allows the use of cheaper components and keeps the costs down while still allowing the customer to get a known quantity. You know that it will, at WORST, do what it says. Chances are good that it will do better.
As far as long term reliability, at 6x the price it had better last at least 6x as long. Since electronics usually either fail during the warranty period or never (barring abuse) that would be pretty hard to do. I have a bunch of amps from the early 90's that are still working great that, while not budget, were nowhere near the price of the McIntosh.

Sorry I lump "audiophile" amps with outrageous prices in with the same hoodoo as "audiphile" wire. There are much better places to spend your money than either that will actually have an *audible* effect on the system.

I was never advocating it being worth the difference. I wouldnt pay for one unless I was building a car for status/show purposes. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/cool.gif.3bcaf8f141236c00f8044d07150e34f7.gif

 

[helotaxi 5,000+ posts]

Read my edit...wasn't referring to your post cause it wasn't there when I started typing. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/biggrin.gif.d71a5d36fcbab170f2364c9f2e3946cb.gif

 

[mokedaddy 5,000+ posts]

No problem. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

 

[only126db 10+ year member]

That's probably quite true, however, where do you draw the line? If the designer of the Profile has half a clue what he's doing, he specs the components in the amp to make sure that with the widest deviation from the nominal value will still allow it to make all its ratings. That allows the use of cheaper components and keeps the costs down while still allowing the customer to get a known quantity. You know that it will, at WORST, do what it says. Chances are good that it will do better. As far as extra r&d money, seriously doubt it. More advertising money to convice those that listen with their eyes that they must have McIntosh if they want SQ, probably.
As far as long term reliability, at 6x the price it had better last at least 6x as long. Since electronics usually either fail during the warranty period or never (barring abuse) that would be pretty hard to do. I have a bunch of amps from the early 90's that are still working great that, while not budget, were nowhere near the price of the McIntosh.

Sorry I lump "audiophile" amps with outrageous prices in with the same hoodoo as "audiphile" wire. There are much better places to spend your money than either that will actually have an *audible* effect on the system.

The designer can design an amp to work perfectly, but when it comes to large companies they look at $$ amounts when it comes to purchasing their electronic components, Alot is based on what the manufacturer says the parts do...Now I am sure the purchasing department will send a test sample of parts to R&D but who's to say those parts werent hand picked and tested prior to shipment and test out at exactly what a company wants, then down the line the production pieces vary by as much as 10%. With lower quality manufacturers or lower product lines that wouldnt matter much, but when you get into a line that costs and performs to higher standards it would be an issue... And along with that comes a higher price for components because the strictness of the specs required of the components.

Just a hypothesis....

Everyone may get their $hit from Chin Dingaling Electro Nuts...//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/crap.gif.7f4dd41e3e9b23fbd170a1ee6f65cecc.gif

 

[helotaxi 5,000+ posts]

Any designer worth the name takes component tolerance into account. 5% resistors are much cheaper than 1% and as long as that 8% difference in max/min potential values is accounted for the engineer can produce a quality, reliable amp for less money. The key there is to overdesign the amp knowing that worst case the goal is met and best case the amp is amazing.

The need for matched components and all the other stuff is marketing. It might make you feel good to know that you have an amp with matched transistors that's hand tuned by some PhD engineer but I let the sound I get, not the credentials of the guy who "tuned" its amps combined with the substantially greater amount of money in my bank acount make me feel good.

 

[only126db 10+ year member]

I got a reply from McIntosh....

Joe,

McIntosh designs and builds the car amps in our one and only factory in Binghamton NY. The car amps have the same performance as our home amplifiers but are repackaged for the automotive environment. Is the McIntosh amp total overkill? From a performance perspective in the car environment probably yes. We do believe we build the finest amplifiers in the world and there will always be small but dedicated market for the best.

We offer factory tours to the public if anyone would like to visit and see the process of making McIntosh products. The factory is located in Binghamton NY and tours may be scheduled by calling ahead at 607-723-3512. To say that McIntosh amps are built by some other off shore company is simply silly and untrue.

Thank you,

Ron Cornelius,

McIntosh

I also went to D&M Holdings and their brand list includes:

Denon

Marantz

McIntosh

Boston Acoustics

Snell Acoustics

Escient

Denon DJ

Calrec

Allen & Heath

D&M Professional and D&M PSS

I saw no mention of Profile Consumer Electronics anywhere.....and no mention of any brands besides Profile on Profiles site....

Where did benchchambers80 get the info that these two brands made by the same company or even remotely close in any design??

Or anyone else who got this info for that matter....

I own neither,never have most likely never will.....But where does this info come from??

 

[Redlineaudio 10+ year member]

I sale the profile amps every day, they are great units and last very well.

If I had the Cash for an awsome system, Then I would be more then happy to pimp the Mac's

 

[Pl8er 5,000+ posts]

That's probably quite true, however, where do you draw the line? If the designer of the Profile has half a clue what he's doing, he specs the components in the amp to make sure that with the widest deviation from the nominal value will still allow it to make all its ratings. That allows the use of cheaper components and keeps the costs down while still allowing the customer to get a known quantity. You know that it will, at WORST, do what it says. Chances are good that it will do better. As far as extra r&d money, seriously doubt it. More advertising money to convice those that listen with their eyes that they must have McIntosh if they want SQ, probably.
As far as long term reliability, at 6x the price it had better last at least 6x as long. Since electronics usually either fail during the warranty period or never (barring abuse) that would be pretty hard to do. I have a bunch of amps from the early 90's that are still working great that, while not budget, were nowhere near the price of the McIntosh.

Sorry I lump "audiophile" amps with outrageous prices in with the same hoodoo as "audiphile" wire. There are much better places to spend your money than either that will actually have an *audible* effect on the system.

I agree and disagree.

Although an engineer at profile may have a decent idea of the tolerance and be able to get it into that range, how much QA goes into making sure that is happening? Also the person who is inspecting the amp most likely is some guy off the street with no degree. Not to mention that even if the amp is checked if it is out of tolerance but still fully functional, will it still pass inspection? I wouldn't write a NCR on something that works but is lets say 10% out instead of the +/-5% and I wouldn't want my QA team to do so either. The reason is because that takes money out of the bottom line. Why repair what is working?

I'm just thinking that when you're buying a top end amp your going to get more attention to each amp. Now don't get me wrong, I don't have a Mac and I doubt I ever will. But I do think my Tru is a better amp than my other amps I have owned. I have had FAR better customer service and more options than any of the other amps I have bought in the past.

 

[Max_Power 10+ year member]

I think there is way.. way.. way.. more audible diffrence in the sound of the speakers you choose rather than the amp that powers them...

remember a watt is a watt is a watt. As long is you're getting the power you paid for and it lasts as long as you need it to, there is nothing wrong with a profile.

IMO profile amps are underratted

 

[Macklessdaddy 10+ year member]

I think there is way.. way.. way.. more audible diffrence in the sound of the speakers you choose rather than the amp that powers them...
remember a watt is a watt is a watt. As long is you're getting the power you paid for and it lasts as long as you need it to, there is nothing wrong with a profile.

IMO profile amps are underratted

true dat

 

[helotaxi 5,000+ posts]

Although an engineer at profile may have a decent idea of the tolerance and be able to get it into that range, how much QA goes into making sure that is happening? Also the person who is inspecting the amp most likely is some guy off the street with no degree. Not to mention that even if the amp is checked if it is out of tolerance but still fully functional, will it still pass inspection? I wouldn't write a NCR on something that works but is lets say 10% out instead of the +/-5% and I wouldn't want my QA team to do so either. The reason is because that takes money out of the bottom line. Why repair what is working?

I think that you misunderstood my point. The engineer will design the amp such that the components used to make it can be at either end of the allowable spec tolerance for that component and the amp will still achieve a minimum level of performance. The end result is that if the finished amp works on the test bench it will at least make the min spec with the most out, worst case. If the components aren't at the edge of tolerance, the amp will perfomr much better. The difference between the best amp off the line and the worst amp off the line might be pretty large, but the worst one will make advertised spec. Chances are, however that you will get something that exceeds the advertised spec because the components are closer to the spec value than the extremes of the tolerance.
Once you move to the more expensive amps, the variance between the best and worst becomes very small. You get a known quantity every time, right around spec. This is mostly from the use to tight tolerance (read expensive) components used in the construction. Are they inherently better or more reliable because of this? Not really, just more consistant in their performance from one example to another. With the more budget minded amps there will be a larger variance between copies but all will at least make spec and most will exceed it comfortably. It's hoe you go about cutting costs with the design.

I'm just thinking that when you're buying a top end amp your going to get more attention to each amp. Now don't get me wrong, I don't have a Mac and I doubt I ever will. But I do think my Tru is a better amp than my other amps I have owned. I have had FAR better customer service and more options than any of the other amps I have bought in the past.

If you start with a quality design and use proven manufacturing techniques, the amp should require almost no attention. Plain and simple McIntosh charges for the name. They are proud of their amps and charge accordingly. They place a lot higher value on them that I ever would. Don't care if I had money to burn, still wouldn't buy them. Much rather spend the money on something i can hear.

 

[mlstrass 5,000+ posts]

Just got done installing a Profile amp/Polk comps in a neighbor's car last night. Luckily he's never heard of Macintosh, so it sounds great to him //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif