What is the best 1000wrms sub?

[Ed Lester 10+ year member]

I don't care about post counts or pictures (unless the pictures provide correlating data). Trust me on that one.
Again, I ask: when I say measurements, what do you think I'm talking about? In your post, again you've cited something specific to Thiele/Small parameters.

I think you are also misunderstanding my argument for assessing the performance of a subwoofer. Here is a really simple situation and a favourite of mine. Harmonic distortion is very easy to measure. It is something that is really physically happening. However, considerable harmonic distortion may go completely unnoticed by a human in that listening session. So is the ear still a reliable way to gauge what you have called accuracy? If we make the argument that unheard distortion is unimportant (which I completely disagree with), let's make another extrapolation: if one person can hear the distortion, and another can't, can we still say that the ear is reliable? The answer to both questions is a resounding no.

I have said this many times, and I'll say it many times again: if the goal is to get something that you like the sound of, then using your ear is fine (even 99% of the posters here are capable of understanding why they enjoy that sound). However, if we wish to make any objective comparisons of which product is more "accurate to the source", then an ear simply will not do and we must substitute it with something that is capable of qualitatively capturing the physical phenomenon created by the product in question.

I do agree that inaudible distortion can have ill effects especially since it can create extra heat.

My goal in my tests was to find the best driver for me and I did have hopes that the JL performed well. It didnt for me.

And yes, I understand that T/S parameters are not what your argument is all about.

I am also uncomfortable with how much of a bandwagon JL has because somebody's buddy has one and it slams in the trunk, and he can do 190 dB but doesnt go to comps because he will feel bad for taking everybody's trophies.

I have been surprised many times over the years when actually hearing a sub sound good when on paper it shouldnt have, or a sub that sounded bad when it should sound good.

 

[newusername 10+ year member]

My goal in my tests was to find the best driver for me and I did have hopes that the JL performed well. It didnt for me.

That was the goal, and that is what it concluded. I think we can put this topic to rest now.

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[Ed Lester 10+ year member]

That was the goal, and that is what it concluded. I think we can put this topic to rest now.
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Agreed,

BTW, I forgot to mention my cosmetic tests. lol What is an objective method of measuring shiny?

 

[audioholic 5,000+ posts]

Agreed,
BTW, I forgot to mention my cosmetic tests. lol What is an objective method of measuring shiny?

The shinier it is, the more my girlfriend will be intrigued by it.
And yes thats measurable, Ive tried it.

 

[newusername 10+ year member]

Agreed,
BTW, I forgot to mention my cosmetic tests. lol What is an objective method of measuring shiny?

I haven't studied optics enough to comment, to be honest. I will do some research and get back to you.

 

[helotaxi 5,000+ posts]

There are tests for reflectivity and luster.

JL's bandwagon of morons doesn't take away from the fact that they design and build great drivers. They are not SPL machines by any means and were never meant to be so. The band wagon came from MTV plain and simple and all the sheep that follow what is shown on the waste of airwave bandwidth. JL earned its real reputation back in the late 80s and early 90s on the IASCA circuit. This was back when the only place to get them was directly from Speaker Warehouse in Miramar. JL is exactly what every one of the smaller internet companies hopes to be: a hugely profitable company whose name is a household word and are considered by the masses to be the top of the line. Can't fault the bandwagon for the fact that their success was built on actual performance and not advertising dollars.

 

[Ed Lester 10+ year member]

Unfortunately I dont think JL's success can be copied nowadays.

They have done a good job building on their successes.

I have had friends that have worked for JL in the past, and they were doing big things in the 80s and 90s. They do make very good products, but to say they are they best based on what is written or what somebody's buddy said just irks me sometimes. Just listen for yourselves.

And yes, they are not SPL machines, thank you. So why when I talk to anybody else about JL, they proceed to tell me about how loud they are, and how many world records they have in SPL. Fact is, they havent held an SPL record in over 10 years, and they dont want to, because they gear more towards sound Q.

I remember the first time I used JL subs back in 97. Shattered the polypropelene cones.

Everyone in my school that was on the JL wagon back then said it was because they were too powerful for my car. What the heck kind of stupid statement was that?

From that point on I realized that it was impossible to point out any faults or flaws of JL because the masses just will not listen.

 

[Kyle_Keating 10+ year member]

I don’t praise JL Audio too much, I work very hard to compete with their market which is full of newbies that blindly by their crap and I agree, its frustrating to deal with that.... but i will give them credit where credit is due... the W7, with all its flaws, is better than 99% of the other crap that outs there... IF they want to charge 100000000 dollars for one, ok, I wont recommend it over a lot of other stuff, but if someone wants to spend a little more and know they are buying quality… I wont talk them out if it… There is a lot other crap for a lot more money that I see people buying….It’s not like a W7 is a Bose Acustamass (which I will talk anyone out of buying)

Seems to me that the “cool” thing to do now days is hate on JL because the newbies always hype it… don’t hate on anything or hype anything unless you know what you’re talking about. The newbies got it right in this case… arguably for the wrong reasons: (brand name) but they got it right.

What are you gonna do……

The W7 is a great woofer.

But dont buy the 8 or 10 ever (that is bone head)... Stick with the 12 or 13... and mostly just the 13.

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[Ed Lester 10+ year member]

I don’t praise JL Audio too much, I work very hard to compete with their market which is full of newbies that blindly by their crap and I agree, its frustrating to deal with that.... but i will give them credit where credit is due... the W7, with all its flaws, is better than 99% of the other crap that outs there... IF they want to charge 100000000 dollars for one, ok, I wont recommend it over a lot of other stuff, but if someone wants to spend a little more and know they are buying quality… I wont talk them out if it… There is a lot other crap for a lot more money that I see people buying….It’s not like a W7 is a Bose Acustamass (which I will talk anyone out of buying)
Seems to me that the “cool” thing to do now days is hate on JL because the newbies always hype it… don’t hate on anything or hype anything unless you know what you’re talking about. The newbies got it right in this case… arguably for the wrong reasons: (brand name) but they got it right.

What are you gonna do……

The W7 is a great woofer.

But dont buy the 8 or 10 ever (that is bone head)... Stick with the 12 or 13... and mostly just the 13.

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Yeah, at least its good product to jump on. Price is another issue.

It could be worse, like when I had customers at my old shop come in to get the P. Miller Bazooka stuff because it had to be the best stuff out there if they had P. Miller represent it.

 

[Kyle_Keating 10+ year member]

nubs will be nubs

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[denim 5,000+ posts]

.... but i will give them credit where credit is due... the W7, with all its flaws,
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Can you describe these flaws?

 

[audioholic 5,000+ posts]

I remember the first time I used JL subs back in 97. Shattered the polypropelene cones.Everyone in my school that was on the JL wagon back then said it was because they were too powerful for my car. What the heck kind of stupid statement was that?

From that point on I realized that it was impossible to point out any faults or flaws of JL because the masses just will not listen.

You make the shattered cones sound like a flaw in the speaker. I remember no such flaws with JL's poly cones.
But yes, funny story.

 

[Ed Lester 10+ year member]

You make the shattered cones sound like a flaw in the speaker. I remember no such flaws with JL's poly cones.
But yes, funny story.

Not necessarily a flaw as I was greatly overpowering the subs. Just not as good as the paper cones from my Cerwin Vegas that held up fine. According to the kids in school it was because the CVs were not as powerful as the JLs.

 

[Ed Lester 10+ year member]

BTW, this was over 10 years ago.

Cone materials have advanced greatly since then and I am a big fan of injection molded cones now.

 

[helotaxi 5,000+ posts]

The newbies got it right in this case… arguably for the wrong reasons: (brand name) but they got it right.

Even a blind squirrel gets a nut every once in awhile.

But dont buy the 8 or 10 ever (that is bone head)... Stick with the 12 or 13... and mostly just the 13.

Sometimes the 8s are all that fits, though...I'd still like them to make an 8W6v2...