What happened to the SKAR subs?

[Bettr n' Revrse 5,000+ posts]

I bringz teh Viagraz //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/fyi.gif.9f1f679348da7204ce960cfc74bca8e0.gif

Dis is true... gunna be another peak in in sales once your build is done Im sure

 

[sundownz Pro Seller]

Why does any company list the sensitivity? Marketing? I see a lot of the "if ya can't beat em join em" type mentality when it comes to marketing car audio and the **** teenagers (the prime demographic) will buy into.
And why is higher sensitivity inherent on larger subs?

/e I've read that law before, good read, but hard to keep track of all the tech stuff in my head .

People want to see sensitivity -- this is why it is listed. I didn't list it on purpose for the SA series for a while and got flooded with e-mails asking for it... which I have to follow with a lesson on Hoffman's Iron Law.

In any event... on to your other question:

n0 = 9.64*10^(-10) * Fs^3 * Vas / Qes -- where n0 is reference efficiency

SPL = 112 + 10 * log(n00 ) -- where SPL is 1w/1m @ 1khz

Start with driver A (12) :

Fs = 28.9 Hz

Vas = 39.3 L

Qes = 0.386

SPL = 85.74 dB

Make driver A into a 15 :

Fs = 25.9 Hz

Vas = 131.2 L

Qes = 0.430

SPL = 89.08 dB

Both drivers have the same motor and coil -- the 15" model simply has added mass from the heavier cone (lower Fs) and a higher Vas from the increased cone area and of course the accompanying Qes change.

Qes shifts with Qms which is affected by the mechanical change of making it a 15" -- Qes = (Qms / (r0 - 1)) * (Re / (Rs + Re))

 

[hrtbrk1 5,000+ posts]

learn something everyday

 

[roarzorz 10+ year member]

Idiot noobs will be idiot noobs. You can't argue with them cause they're too dumb to understand just how dumb they really are.

 

[ChevyRidinLow]

For $175 you won't find a much batter sub woofer than the Skar...For $250 brand new with warranty you definitely won't find a better sounding, more reliable, more underrated sub than an SA-15.
That's not "forum boner" or "nut hugging" I respect the hell out of what Jacob does and I know he doesn't just pick some Chinese garbage out of a catalog and stick some Sundown stickers on it...Sundown is as legit as they come, and with his attention to detail, and his drive to develop new things, Sundown will one day be the Rockford Fosgate, or Pioneer, or any of the other big players we all love to hate.

In closing...The SA- series of subs is amazing in every aspect...You want to spend $500 a sub? Oh they're out there too...

i havnt seen an sa in person i want to try them out the site does not show any specs or prices anyone wanna enlighten me?

 

[Boomsday 10+ year member]

The forum boner is starting to point at a new sub so the skars will be just a memory after a few more weeks. I was not impressed with them that much. I mean everything they did in the build process has been done a billion times so they brought nothing new to the table other then a lower FS which is only 1 of a 100 different specs that should be taken into account when buying a sub. U want skar then get a SA.

smh, what is this new sub, last I read on a few different sites it has been and still is the skars.

 

[sundownz Pro Seller]

i havnt seen an sa in person i want to try them out the site does not show any specs or prices anyone wanna enlighten me?

SA-12" Subwoofer

The 12s have specs up -- you can get pricing at a dealer :

Sundown Audio

WoofersEtc also has specs for the other sizes up as well -- we are still working on our new site to get everything published.

 

[loudwhat? 10+ year member]

People want to see sensitivity -- this is why it is listed. I didn't list it on purpose for the SA series for a while and got flooded with e-mails asking for it... which I have to follow with a lesson on Hoffman's Iron Law.
In any event... on to your other question:

n0 = 9.64*10^(-10) * Fs^3 * Vas / Qes -- where n0 is reference efficiency

SPL = 112 + 10 * log(n00 ) -- where SPL is 1w/1m @ 1khz

Start with driver A (12) :

Fs = 28.9 Hz

Vas = 39.3 L

Qes = 0.386

SPL = 85.74 dB

Make driver A into a 15 :

Fs = 25.9 Hz

Vas = 131.2 L

Qes = 0.430

SPL = 89.08 dB

Both drivers have the same motor and coil -- the 15" model simply has added mass from the heavier cone (lower Fs) and a higher Vas from the increased cone area and of course the accompanying Qes change.

Qes shifts with Qms which is affected by the mechanical change of making it a 15" -- Qes = (Qms / (r0 - 1)) * (Re / (Rs + Re))

i follow what you are saying but the real question is when you add OAF technology or Fibutron to a sub how does that affect your calculations? we all know what they do for performance but i don't get what it does to the specs to get that performance.

 

[sundownz Pro Seller]

Uh yes it is true. The higher sensitivity the louder the speaker gets off the same power as a lower sensitivity sub, on whatever frequency it's tested on...That's the generally accepted definition of sensitivity..Calling me wrong means nothing I just directly copy and pasted my info from car audio sites lol.
If it doesn't mean **** on subs then why is it even listed?

Yea it's been discussed at length, I've read the discussions, and sensitivity means the speaker's volume at 1w/1m on a frequency...That's....what....it...means...lol if it doesn't work ~50hz than that's what you say, not "not true, not true" because it is true...

1) Your current interpretation of sensitivity in relation to sub-woofers is indeed incorrect. The part you are missing based on the first paragraph is that the tested / calculated frequency is 1000 Hz.

2) As already discussed; it's a standard T/S spec and people want to see it so it's listed. It is also quite often listed incorrectly at 2.83v on drivers that are not 8 ohms to artificially inflate the spec for uneducated consumers... so confusing is rampant regarding sensitivity spec.

3) It isn't true -- it doesn't work for sub-bass. I've tested it, measured it, and even posted results to show it doesn't work that way.

Now... hopefully you took some time to read the things I've posted and understand WHY the standard sensitivity spec is largely irrelevant to true sub-bass drivers. It is a VERY common mis-understanding in the car audio world especially.

This is not a discussion to bash you or anyone else (at least not from me) -- but, honestly, this is what I do all day every day. I'm not sure why you would want to doubt what I'm telling you here. I don't throw parts up in the air and hope they fall together as a speaker -- they are designed with an understanding of what the parts and specs do and why.

 

[ChevyRidinLow]

SA-12" Subwoofer
The 12s have specs up -- you can get pricing at a dealer :

Sundown Audio

WoofersEtc also has specs for the other sizes up as well -- we are still working on our new site to get everything published.

i figured but there is no sa dealer within 250 miles of me

 

[Electrodynamic 10+ year member]

Guess which one is the more "efficient" subwoofer. There's a 10 dB difference in sensitivity between the two drivers:

PS: Well said Jacob!

 

[RAM_Designs 5,000+ posts]

^blue, since a more efficient speaker is going to have the spl advantage up top but lack low-end...in most cases.

 

[retrojordans 10+ year member]

1) Your current interpretation of sensitivity in relation to sub-woofers is indeed incorrect. The part you are missing based on the first paragraph is that the tested / calculated frequency is 1000 Hz.
2) As already discussed; it's a standard T/S spec and people want to see it so it's listed. It is also quite often listed incorrectly at 2.83v on drivers that are not 8 ohms to artificially inflate the spec for uneducated consumers... so confusing is rampant regarding sensitivity spec.

3) It isn't true -- it doesn't work for sub-bass. I've tested it, measured it, and even posted results to show it doesn't work that way.

Now... hopefully you took some time to read the things I've posted and understand WHY the standard sensitivity spec is largely irrelevant to true sub-bass drivers. It is a VERY common mis-understanding in the car audio world especially.

This is not a discussion to bash you or anyone else (at least not from me) -- but, honestly, this is what I do all day every day. I'm not sure why you would want to doubt what I'm telling you here. I don't throw parts up in the air and hope they fall together as a speaker -- they are designed with an understanding of what the parts and specs do and why.

Yea I read it, it says ~50% of "specs" are totally useless and 99% of consumers will never know or care about any "specs" except the ones aggressively marketed to make the sub look "louder" when 99% of consumers don't know what "loud" even is.

This is all very good to know though, while marketing to certain demographics (teenagers) you can bullshit your way through a huge sale, basically selling them whatever has the biggest profit margin. Dealing with other demographics however requires a much more knowledgeable approach.

I can't wait to collaborate with you more on the scientific facts regarding what makes SA the best choice it will no doubt help me sell Sundown Audio products more effectively. Once Travis gets back from SBNs in Florida he will complete the hiring process to make me an official SA rep.

 

[thevic24 5,000+ posts]

Hell, even JL audio got it right, read the 2nd page of the manual...

http://mobile.jlaudio.com/pdfs/7954.pdf

And keep in mind, these measurements are almost always taken in free air testing.

Add a box, amp, environment(car, truck, trunk ect..) and the 1w/1m flies out the window.

This is why some, same style subs are louder than others under the same conditions.(box, amp car ect.)

 

[retrojordans 10+ year member]

Hell, even JL audio got it right, read the 2nd page of the manual...

http://mobile.jlaudio.com/pdfs/7954.pdf

And keep in mind, these measurements are almost always taken in free air testing.

Add a box, amp, environment(car, truck, trunk ect..) and the 1w/1m flies out the window.

This is why some, same style subs are louder than others under the same conditions.(box, amp car ect.)

HAH That's awesome! They flat out shoot that **** down.